To think teachers are quite well paid?

[Newyearnewnameforme]

Not intended goadily but my salary is more than most of my graduate friends.

Obviously, it isn’t Rockefeller standards but AIBU to think it’s actually OK?

I think teachers are well paid and get lovely holidays. I'm in the minority as on mumsnet you have to be teacher-worshippers or face the bullets..

The pay is very good when you take the pension into consideration.

The pension probably makes a 47k salary actually worth around 70k with the pension being a kind of deferred salary.

Honestly these discussions are so stupid. Of course teachers are underpaid for what they have to put up with and the qualifications that are required. Otherwise it would be very competitive to get into teaching and people would be desperate to cling on to their coveted posts. In fact the opposite is true - there is a massive recruitment crises and a high proportion leave the job after only a few years.

The morons who say it's cushy and well paid are usually comparing the pay of a highly experienced teacher with lots of extra responsibility to low skilled jobs. Of course a teacher is going to earn more than you if you're a hotel receptionist at the start of your career.

Market forces are indisputable. Nobody wants to teach because the benefits don't outweigh the disadvantages of the job. If you want to attract high calibre teachers you need to make the job more attractive - by either creating improved working conditions or by increasing pay. This really is indisputable.

It depends really. I’m on UPS and have a TLR so my pay isn’t representative really but when I was a classroom teacher only, I always felt like I had enough money - surplus in fact. My salary probably isn’t high on comparison to city workers though but I’m in a job I love, and I get 13 weeks off a year - which unlike it seems most other teachers I don’t work in.

The thing is you there will always be someone who has no idea about what teaching involves and the salary a similarly qualified person could command in industry who will wax lyrical about how easy their job is but their opinions are completely worthless.

What is relevant is that there aren't enough teachers - you need to attract more if you want your kids taught to a decent standard and you want a fleet of doctors, nurses, tax paying citizens etc to care for you in retirement. You won't retain the ones the teachers you have by explaining to them that 're lazy and a group of people who know nothing about teaching believe their job to be easy. You won't attract new teachers by explaining that while teachers themselves don't find the job easy a group of people on the internet that have no qualifications in this particular area assure you that it is in fact easy.

When people talk about the ‘London bubble’ does that mean London schools pay more or are people referring to London weighting?

Sorry elizabeth I wasn’t going to stay in on the internet all day to please you.

Yabu. On normal classroom pay scale it's shit for what we have to do and deal with.

Thank you for your posts sabine they’re really interesting and informative. Your school sounds very generous. I hope they manage to stay that way. My school has relatively good conditions but our timetables are full and our marking workload is shocking. I have no idea how full timers manage to keep up. For my 3 days teaching, I do around 8 hours of marking and I’m still not quite keeping up. We have a work scrutiny next week and I suspect I’m going to be in trouble. I had planned to do some over Christmas but I’ve been in bed with a chest infection for most of it (hence why I’m on this thread so much).

@BronteShortbread what I mean by “London bubble” is as well as London weighting, going by what I’ve read on here, there seems to be more London schools offering TLRs (and good ones!) compared to other areas around the country. Therefore you can be a teacher (with middle leader responsibility) but not in SLT.

For example, I’ve seen written on here that there’s no room in primary schools for TLRs subject leadership. That’s not the case in the schools I’ve worked in. I left a school because the responsibility increased but I didn’t get any additional pay and found another school willing to pay very easily. Even though I work in a primary, I have the same TLR as the OP. I have friends in other (primary) schools with the same TLR, so it’s not just my school. I understand that’s not the case elsewhere.

I think there is a lot of misunderstandings about what life is like for people not in teaching and the pressures ( impression being everyone else works 9-5)

When DH and I were first married, and in our early 30s he often worked a 12 hr day. This was in industry where they were getting together bids for $Billions projects. He was managing a team of up to 100 staff including contractors.

He stayed at work for deadlines and someone sent out to have pizzas delivered. He'd also sometimes have to work on Saturdays and travel at weekend, internationally, to get to the client by a Monday.

And if the work wasn't done to the deadline they could lose the order and lose their jobs.

At the time he'd be earning roughly the same as a teacher on the start of the UPS.

Now, my DCs and their friends who are earning good salaries are also working 12 hr days and the ones in banking often work from 8am - 10pm.

As a former teacher I am fully supportive of teachers but I also think there is a misconception around the hours other people work (and the 20/25 days holiday they get.)

The thing is teachers complain they are badly paid and do a lot of hours outside the classroom. I'm sure that's true but lots of other professions are the same but it's only teacher we should feel sorry for.
Presumably you know how much you're going to earn as a teacher so why complain about it?

What a bizarre post rosebel if you read the OP!
who claims she did not start this thread to encourage comments such as yours and the one earlier about MN being full of teacher worshippers

@Rosebel look at the retention crisis and there’s your answer.

Who is complaining about it @Rosebel?

I'm a primary teacher. 40000 would never be attainable without deputy headship! I am on M6 and earn 35k, I think it's an okay wage. Most of my graduate friends earn more though. The hours are long but the holidays are good.

@NeedToGoToBedNow

I think from your comment you quite literally need to go to bed as clearly you’re so incredibly sleep deprived that you think we spend the holidays swanning around and the pay is in proportion to what we have to put up with

Yep £47k is a decent salary, plus your pension is probably worth a fair old whack as your employer contribution is likely far higher than most other roles paying £47k.

It's not a typical teacher salary, but does show that decent pay is possible for those who want a decently paid teaching career.

Pay is not the main issue in teacher retention.

We haven't had a teacher salary/holidays/pay and conditions thread in a while. The school holidays really bring them out.

Most teachers haven't just taught these days, though- on my PGCE there were lots of career changers.

I don't actually know anyone who regularly works 12 hour days (except one person who works compressed days). I do know lots of people earning between £30k-£40k, similar to a lot of classroom teachers. The average hours they work in a year would probably be similar to a teacher, but in term time teachers will work more hours per week.

I do agree that it's not easy in other jobs, and they all have their stresses. I also think there are some things about teaching that are particularly tough in terms of interaction with students and having to be constantly "on" although again this is not unique to teaching.

However, I think there is still a perception from some people that teaching is "easy"- and that's what teachers are aiming to combat.

I know there are other sectors (e.g. in healthcare) that struggle to recruit, but most private sector employers don't have the recruitment/retention issues that teaching, especially secondary teaching does.

The most interesting thing about the recruitment crisis is that it’s worse in secondary schools even though Primary teachers seem to have worse pay and higher workload than secondary teachers. No idea why that is but I’ve always been a bit baffled by it.

In terms of pension I believe for most teachers the contribution is about 8.9% and the government pay in 14% so it’s very good, not as good as it used to be with final salary but good all the same.

15 years in teaching and was on around £32k ft eq. when I left (worked 4 days pw so didn't actually earn that figure).

Left teaching as the hours were an absolute joke. Never had quality time with my own kids which was particularly important in the five years I was a lone parent. However much I gave to my job it was never "quite enough" or there was "room for improvement" on X, Y and/or Z.

Now working ft as a 1:1 SEN HLTA on around £1k per month. Pay is rubbish and we just about get by and live without luxuries. But I have my life back, my mental health is so much better and most importantly, my boys have the time with their mum they deserve 😊

£47,000 is a Head of a large curriculum area salary, not a mainscale teacher. A typical secondary school will have about 8 ordinary English teachers on mainscale and one on the salary you are on. In my last job (now SAHM), we had 4 NQTs in the department (earning 21,000) two other young mainscale teachers (on about 26000 after 4 years) a second in Dept who had an allowance of £4000 approx and the HOD on a salary like yours. Most teachers never earn £47,000.
Heads of major depts, Leadership posts and Headteachers are well-paid I think. Ordinary classroom teachers have a limit of about £37,000 no matter how many years they teach. I don't think it's a great salary given the demands of teaching - and presumably one of the reasons teachers are in short supply and leave the profession in droves.

Executive Heads are paid ridiculous amounts of money as are Academy Heads often.

Are you high up in a school? Most class teachers are on significantly less than that. 25-30k is about the limit for almost all teachers who aren't in high-up leadership roles.