Cyprus is no longer a safe place for (young, single) women to holiday?

[Kraai]

The teen went back to her ONS's room for consensual sex. When there, 11 of his mates burst in and filmed while three of them then raped her. She went to the police and reported it. They were detained. They said it was consensual and was "with love" (I kid you not!). She was interviewed at length with no legal representation and the police decided she was lying. She was then charged with the crime of making up a crime and has been unable to come home since the summer. The guys were all allowed to return to Israel where some of them have since said things indicating she wasn't lying at all and I'm pretty sure the video was shared (from memory, which may be wrong). She's had psychological evaluation saying she's suffering badly from PTSD.

It's worth noting that the Cyprus is a very popular destination for young Israelis to let off steam before they start national service and there's a strong political tie between the two.

So, AIBU to say that Cyprus is no longer a safe destination for young woman? If the worst happens to you and you report it and the police think you're not a credible witness, YOU will end up in jail. Knowing how traumatic reporting something like a stolen wallet in a foreign police station can be, the idea that a woman would be interviewed without legal representation in a state of severe distress, however that manifests, and then not believed and charged means that men have been given free rein to rape in Cyprus. Especially if it's in a potential "grey zone".

https://www.bbc.com/news/videoandd_audio/headlines/50944483/cyprus-rape-claim-case-it-s-a-very-worrying-conviction

I can certainly agree that not all men hate all women. But I do wonder what percentage would act in a hateful way if they knew they would get away with it?

This study says almost a third of men would '...admit they might rape a woman if they knew no one would find out and they wouldn’t face any consequences.'' But only if the researcher didn't use the word 'rape'.

thinkprogress.org/1-in-3-college-men-in-survey-say-they-would-rape-a-woman-if-they-could-get-away-with-it-ffa7406b9778/

based on 73 replies... is that enough to describe the entire "men" group?

JosefKeller

Men as a class are a threat to women as a class.

It doesn’t mean that individual men within that class aren’t vehemently against VAWG. That doesn’t change the fact that as a class they murder us at a rate of 2 a week and rape us around 80,000 a year.

Why have we got to debate whether men as a class are a danger to women as a class on a thread about gang rape.

This is a blatant derail.

Nope none of that common sense or understanding class analysis.

Any and all discussion about male violence or a man /men must be interrupted and derailed with "NAMALT" , "what about the men" and "not my Nigel".

"tourist industry from Israel is v important to Cyprus and this may have had a bearing, to be fair."

There are more UK tourists to Cyprus than from Israel. If the Cypriot authorities were intervening to protect the tourism industry, I really doubt they'd have prosecuted the British women. I think they'd have far far preferred this all to just be swept under the carpet. It's much easier to justify not prosecuting the accused rapists due to lack of evidence - which happens all the time - than the much more unusual step of prosecuting the woman for actually lying.

I'm honestly not sure what happened. Now the FCO has raised concerns, I'm also more worried about miscarriage of justice than I was before. But I don't think this has anything to do with the nationalities of the perpetrators or the victim.

I am aware (thanks to the game Therapy) that there was a similar study of some sort referenced in Harper's Magazine in 1984 where 35% of male college students said "...they might commit rape if there were no chance of being caught."

I was looking for this study to reference it and found a shocking article.

If anyone is in any doubt there is a war on women, maybe this article will help...

harpers.org/archive/2018/08/i-am-evidence-review-not-that-bad-rape-culture-querying-consent/

Discussing a book that a woman compiled about rape, these pieces are very distressing but hope no one minds me placing them here. They are alarming relevant to this discussion, I think.

"The greater betrayal comes from complicit parents, callous peers, thoughtless doctors. (“At least you weren’t killed,” one therapist says.) Sometimes, the rapist is the parent, peer, or doctor. (“I’ve had a long talk with your father,” a psychiatrist tells thirteen-year-old Sharisse Tracey. “This was just a onetime thing.”) The problem lies with families, the friends that families keep, the church congregations to which families belong, and the professionals to whom families turn. At sixteen, after her father tries again, Tracey writes letters to every adult she knows, begging for assistance leaving home. She receives no replies."

In this case it is the family who facilitated the rape, in other cases, the state.

"Rape is not an epidemic or even a pandemic; it is endemic, integral to how power functions and how our social arrangements sanction and exacerbate its many corruptions. A fixation on consent keeps us from facing this. Sharisse Tracey’s father did not lack an understanding of consent. Border guards who commit sexual abuse are not unclear on the point, either. Brock Turner was not under the impression that his victim had somehow signaled her interest. These men assessed the circumstances and concluded that they could take what they wanted, so they took it, and they were correct; they could—they can—inflict damage with near impunity. To talk about consent in the face of their choices feels as futile and negligent as fixating on the untested rape kits. There must be a supporting apparatus to make such tools matter, and it seems we’re quite far from installing it."

The DM article says that the Israeli govt were watching the trial closely. Another article said that one of the men’s dad is in the Israeli govt. Also Israel and Cyprus have just signed a billion dollar pipeline deal.

If the rapists had been from an African country, they would not have been so heavily protected.

Italian very familiar.

My cousin was a "cheeky bugger"

My grandfather was excused on account of being drunk. I was told how I should modify my behaviour from then on , no more hello kisses, no more being alone with him, I shouldn't have sat on his lap as a small child etc.My mum is very proud of herself for "allowing" me not to see him again and banging on about how "dignified " he was in his illness and up until he died. Dad was devastated,but family loyalty won.

My classmates got off scott free(partly my fault), I was described as a "bitch in heat" by one of the teachers supervising. I negotiated a deal with them that I'd agree to a sanitised version if they left me alone for the next year. I still remember that call "oh we weren't drunk". I was blamed...what were you doing in their room (it wasn't their room), why were you wearing shorts and a skimpy top(it was summer ) and the best one "there's no smoke without fire"- they didn't quite know what I've done to deserve it, but I must've done something.

My maths tutor... everyone knew,there were so many rumours(I found out after). Mum was warned personally, but because I was fat she thought I'd be safe. I had to ring him myself,pretend to be mum and cancel any future lesson. I had to find a different tutor myself.

I didn't even tell about the other incidents because what would've been the point?

Just realised that list makes no sense now, I got confused about what info I posted on which thread. Oh well, welcome to my past.

Panic

Oh love...I’m sorry.
And actually all very relevant to this thread.

"Israeli govt were watching the trial closely. Another article said that one of the men’s dad is in the Israeli govt. Also Israel and Cyprus have just signed a billion dollar pipeline deal."

Personally, I don't believe that aspect for a second. Israel chucked an ex-PRESIDENT into jail for rape. The Israeli Govt woudn't intervene in a case like this unless there were clearly a miscarriage of justice against its own citizens. They can't even get Naama Issachar out of jail in Russia in what was obviously a stitch up.

@PanicAndRun I am so sorry. I hope that posting that link was not unkind in any way, of course not my intention to derail or say anything inappropriate.

I just feel we get so wrapped up in defending the good men (my husband is a bloody star, but it is not about him) and it is not about the other good men. It is about that percentage that would do something immoral or illegal if they thought they could get away with it. I am actually kind of surprised that the percentage is as low.

@AnnieTotach how can you explain the Cypriot police arresting the perpetrators, even allegedly beating them up, then ten days or so later forcing the victim to say she made it up? Unless you actually believe she made it up, it looks like someone intervened. It doesn't actually need to be someone at the highest level of government. It can be amazing what people who work behind the scenes can do eg advisers. Also you can't compare the power relationship between Israel and Cyprus to that between Israel and Russia. That's being disingenuous.
As an aside, dh (who isn't British) had a very eventful trip to Aya nappa in the early 90s. One highlight was a friend arrested for being drunk and fighting. One of his parents was very high up in the government- later to become a minister - and the friend was miraculously released without charge. (The same friend was later arrested in Holland for a problem with their visa and again, released after a word in the right ear. My dh' s family are VERY well connected in his country and it's a real eye opener to learn it's not what you know but who you know all over the world.)

Nothing to be sorry about, I was just posting in support of your link. There was nothing upsetting,unkind or derailing in it.

It's all linked isn't it? K

It could be that Israel intervened after the boys/men (recalling that some of the group were minors and therefore entitled to certain protections) were roughly treated. That would make sense and would be entirely appropriate.

But I don't believe for a second that they put pressure on the Cypriot Govt to release them if they thought they were guilty. Plenty of Israeli tourists do shit abroad ,get caught, and are charged without any damage to relations with the country.

After all, the trade/toruism with the UK is far greater than with Israel. Israelis. 30% of tourists to Cyrpus are from the UK whereas only 8% are from Israel. Wouldn't Cyrpus have listened to the UK at least as much as Israel?

And it would have been far easier for the UK Govt to have put pressure on the Cypriot authorieis to have just not pressed charges against the girl. No one would have questioned that at all.

Are you suggesting that the UK Govt cares less about its citizens abroad than the Israeli Govt?

PanicAndRun Thank you

I hope to go on the march. This case has really bothered me. Nothing personal at all. Just the sheer bloody injustice of it all.

UK is also much larger trading partner with Cyprus than Israel is. It accounts for 5% of exports and 5% of imports whereas Israel accounts for 4% of imports and not a significant export partner.

So if the Cypriot Govt was worried about damaging relations etc, stands to reason that the UK Govt would have had more leverage.

Whatever the failings of the Cypriot police and/or legal system (and there may indeed have been here), it seems to me to be far more likely they messed up all on their own rather than some kind of malevolent Israeli influence (which it seems some people are very quick to believe).

To me it seems pretty clear, based on this case and the other high profile female imprisoned abroad case, that the UK government doesn't seem too concerned for imprisoned females at this moment in time. I hate to say it But I think Brexit has eclipsed many things.

Findumdum1 you might want to consider having that Chumocracy link taken down; it's pretty horrible anyway, but more to the point it links to the girl's name

On a separate note it turns out I know her, through her and her mum both coming from my own area ... oh dear

The FCO publically raised concerns about the trial. That's highly unusual and would suggest that they are concerned about this case.

That chumocracy account.. i had only read the first tweet, but went back. I have no words...

I'm avoiding that stuff, I don't want to have an even lower option of anyone!