DD kicked a child in the face

[OutlawTorm]

Took DD (10) shopping for clothes to spend her Christmas money. She was trying on clothes in a cubicle when a little girl (aged about 6?) came along and bent down to look under the cubicle door. DD told her to away. The girl laughed and stuck her head under the door again. DD shouted at her to stop it. I tapped the girl on the shoulder and asked her to stop it as it was rude. The girl laughed at me and stuck her head under the door again. DD shouted and banged on the door. I asked the girl where her mum was and she stuck her tongue out and put her head back under the door. DD then kicked her in the face. The girl scrambled away, started crying and holding her face. I shouted at DD and asked the girl if she was ok and where was her mum (so I could go and speak to her!) the girl shouted “shut up” at me and ran off. I followed her, out of the changing room, into the main store, followed her until she went up to an adult and started walking over. The woman asked her why she was crying and the girl shouted at her to shut up. I walked over and explained that my DD had kicked her as she kept sticking her head under the door whilst she was getting changed. The woman said “well, now you know not to do that!” ... she apologised to ME and walked off!!!

DD came out of cubicle as if nothing had happened. I said “what were you thinking? You could have seriously hurt her” and DD replied “wish I had”.

She is currently under CAHMs for behavioural problems, suspected aspergers, worrying behaviours. DH thinks I’m over reacting as “even the kids mum wasn’t bothered” but I am! It’s not a normal reacting to being annoyed is it? Kicking them in the face?

Its not OK to deliberatly kick a child in the face.
That doesnt mean you cant see why this little girl did it, surely?
She clearly felt like she was defending herself.

There are other ways this should have been dealt with, BEFORE this little girl felt like she had to defend herself.

We either tell young children that they deserve privacy and its wrong for people to stare at their bodies or we dont. That room was supposed to be a private place she could undress and her privacy was violated. That other child broke this rule and this was a violation of the childs privacy and dignity.
You as an adult, possibly a NT adult can see all sorts of nuance here and have maturity and expereience to evaluate different levels of threat in different contexts. This girl didnt.

I can totally see why this girl kicked the face under the chsnging room door. I can see any of my autistic kids doing the same in those circumstances, and while words would be had, I would see this as a panic reaction and I would be sympathetic as it was a defence reaction, not offence aggression

I can totally see why this girl kicked the face under the chsnging room door. I can see any of my autistic kids doing the same in those
Would it get that far knowing your child could lash out.
I think the OP learnt her lesson act quick next time especially if SN.
Sorry OP this one is the parent's fault of both DC.

Branleuse

Just because I might see why she did it (which I can’t, actually, in this case) doesn’t mean I can’t explain to her how wrong it was.

The other child did not deserve to be kicked in the face.

However, OP's child was repeatedly asking for her privacy to be respected.

The OP was not intervening quickly, as she should have.

The 10 year old lashed out.
Not an ideal situation.
Not behaviour that should be applauded.
But unfortunately understandable behaviour that she felt forced into because her mother wasn't helpful.

How many times was she supposed to ask for this child to leave her alone.

I would be explaining to her that of course she shouldn't do this while admitting that I did understand in the moment.

She didn't realise it was a 6 year old.

But if both mother's had been looking after their children this wouldn't have occurred.

At that age girls can be very private while changing clothes.
I would prefer that she protect herself than perhaps feel powerless and just stand there crying.

If the OP's child was a boy and this happened, would the outrage be the same I wonder?

Kicking is wrong, defending yourself not.

Scenario - visited cinema at the weekend with ds. He’s had stitches in a leg wound and got himself into comfortable position. Young dc behind him kicked seat. Constantly. Jolting his leg every time. I turned round and asked parent to control her DCs behaviour. Parent glanced at me, but said nothing. Kicking continued. I went and brought back with me a cinema staff member who had a word with parent. Kicking stopped. But reading comments on here, did I play it wrong? Should I or my ds have hauled the dc over the seats and given her a slap, or a kick? Should we have behaved like thugs? Genuinely interested in views.

I went and brought back with me a cinema staff member who had a word with parent.

Op could have done the same, and the situation would probably ended very differently. She was quick enough to leave the changing room to race after the child, but chose not to get help to diffuse the situation.

As an adult you really have to ask?

A better comparison would be.
I was in the toilet at a nightclub. I was a bit drunk. Alone and didn't have anyone around me. A man tried to get in under the toilets. I asked him to stop. He didn't.

Should I just sit down and keep asking or should I bloody do what I can to defend myself?

I was in the toilet at a nightclub. I was a bit drunk. Alone and didn't have anyone around me. A man tried to get in under the toilets. I asked him to stop. He didn't.

This is fucking barking.

A hell of a lot closer to the scenario that actually happened.

Somebody vulnerable in an enclosed space with no assistance. The daughter did good.

I'm with your dd and the girls mum tbh. The girl was rude and my the sounds of it had been asked multiple times by both of you to stop doing what she was doing.

You intervened, livelovebehappy. OP just stood wringing her hands and left it all to her daughter to sort out. The ten year old sorted it out the way ten year olds do. You behaved like a responsible adult and asked for assistance from cinema staff when other parent ignored you. Would you have let the seat kicking continue if your kid wasn't nursing a sore leg? Or if it was your seat that was being kicked?

MerryChristmasUfilthyanimal

No, it’s really not. You sound properly unhinged now.

Why? Because I support a girl with a useless mother protecting her privacy and fighting against feeling violated?

You intervened and stood up for your son, Livelovebehappy. He had no reason to feel helpless, angry and possibly scared.

Plus the biggest issue here was a young girl's privacy being invaded which is a lot different from an annoying chair kicker at the cinema.

MerryChristmasUfilthyanimal

Because you can’t make sensible distinctions between situations.

Also. When was the last time the Op was around? I was hoping she would clarify that there were not two poor girls with ineffective and uncaring parents.

Because the poor parenting is the most shocking thing I've seen on this thread.

We're judging a child by adult standards here, that's pretty disturbing. Her own mother left her to deal with a situation she wasn't remotely happy about. Kicking was wrong, but if parents are just going to stand around like lemons, then kids will take things into their own hands (or feet).

But the cinema story was exactly the same?

The girl was half undressed in a confined space being repeatedly exposed against her will after using verbal commands to try and control the situation.

As I said before. The first thing I would've done as the Op is profusely apologise for my failing. And then explain that she was right to defend herself.

The girl was half undressed in a confined space being repeatedly exposed against her will after using verbal commands to try and control the situation.

Like I said, completely unable to make the distinctions which matter in this case.

We're judging a child by adult standards here,

This in spades.

She's 10 and should never have been in that position in the first place.

People are acting like this will shape all her future responses in difficult situations but that's nonsense.

And what are the distinctions.
She's not some aggressive thug?
She tried multiple times to verbally and non violently stop the invasion of her privacy.
The child is wild and clearly suffering from a shit upbringing.
She ignored both the 10 year old and the adult. The Op could physically held her back and been an actual adult.

The 10 year old took charge and did what she had to.

Like I said, completely unable to make the distinctions which matter in this case

Repeating something doesn't add a single thing to the debate, and doesn't give any indicating why you think the cinema analogy closer fits the situation.

I'm interested to see why you think it does.

Exactly. If Op had said my 10 year old walks through the town centre round house kicking every child in the face that would get a completely different response.

But she doesn't. She is clearly restrained and controlled as the child had multiple warnings.

So this was a distressed and isolated incident.

BlueMoonRising

I didn’t say the cinema comparison was good. I said the nightclub analogy was silly. And it is.

The 10 year old took charge and did what she had to

The ten year old overreacted wildly and moved to violence when simply putting her clothes back on would have solved the immediate problem. She was in no danger whatsoever.