DD kicked a child in the face

[OutlawTorm]

Took DD (10) shopping for clothes to spend her Christmas money. She was trying on clothes in a cubicle when a little girl (aged about 6?) came along and bent down to look under the cubicle door. DD told her to away. The girl laughed and stuck her head under the door again. DD shouted at her to stop it. I tapped the girl on the shoulder and asked her to stop it as it was rude. The girl laughed at me and stuck her head under the door again. DD shouted and banged on the door. I asked the girl where her mum was and she stuck her tongue out and put her head back under the door. DD then kicked her in the face. The girl scrambled away, started crying and holding her face. I shouted at DD and asked the girl if she was ok and where was her mum (so I could go and speak to her!) the girl shouted “shut up” at me and ran off. I followed her, out of the changing room, into the main store, followed her until she went up to an adult and started walking over. The woman asked her why she was crying and the girl shouted at her to shut up. I walked over and explained that my DD had kicked her as she kept sticking her head under the door whilst she was getting changed. The woman said “well, now you know not to do that!” ... she apologised to ME and walked off!!!

DD came out of cubicle as if nothing had happened. I said “what were you thinking? You could have seriously hurt her” and DD replied “wish I had”.

She is currently under CAHMs for behavioural problems, suspected aspergers, worrying behaviours. DH thinks I’m over reacting as “even the kids mum wasn’t bothered” but I am! It’s not a normal reacting to being annoyed is it? Kicking them in the face?

I can’t imagine how frightening it would be to a 6 year old child and to be kicked in the face.

Well she can't have been very frightened, as she repeatedly told op to shut up, she stuck her tongue out at her, and told her mum to shut up!

I was naked in a shower cubicle in a campsite once and a little face appeared under the partition. It seemed to belong to a child who should know better.

I reached across and pushed the face away with a bare foot. Cue screeching, "Mummy, the lady kicked me in the face!"

Mummy heard my stern response, "That was not a kick; I pushed you away with my foot. You shouldn't be peering under doors!"

They were both gone by the time I came out.

On another similar occasion, it was a big boy of 9 or 10 who had climbed up on the adjoining bench to peer over the top at me in the shower. He got an eyeful and then a faceful of shower water. Then a booming announcement: "If that boy is old enough to be perving at women in the shower, he's too old to bring into the ladies!"

Silence and a joint exit before I was dry and dressed. Peeping toms deserve all they get, even the little ones.

@churchandstate re your post at 17 something, you've obviously never seen proper "extreme violence" if you think one swift, probably socked rather than booted, kick is "extreme violence". I could list the injuries of people I've dealt with who have been assaulted to the point of near death but I'm sure it would turn your innocent little stomach. They would have happily taken a single light kick that they can walk away from. This was not "extreme" in the slightest. And could have been prevented entirely if the OP hadn't been so wet and ineffectual.

Sorry but I'm with your DH, DD and the child's mum on this one.
Imagine if it was you getting undressed and someone was doing that to you, you would feel quite pissed off and angry that they're not listening or respecting your privacy.
Good on your daughter!

Your dd has her intimate space violated. She asked politely. She asked firmly. She resorted to physical violence as a last resort.

I would buy her ice cream and praise her for protecting herself.

Some changing rooms are open plan anyway- how will this little snowflake cope?? .......OP, does your DD ever wear a bikini in the summer or a swimsuit? People would see the exact same amount of flesh- what is the big deal???

Following on, why even bother with a change room at all! Why not just stand in the middle of the store, strip off to underwear and try clothes on. How ridiculous.

I don’t think anyone was to blame here apart from the mum who obviously tried hard to lose the problematic 6yo for a while. I wouldn’t blame the 10yo.

Those of you who think it is ok, scare the life out of me. I feel I am on a different planet. It can never be ok to kick anyone in the face.

@WarrenNicole is your child currently under CAMHs for behavioural problems and suspected aspergers? Because if not, your expectation of that you mentioned of how your child would react (ie perfectly) isn't relevant here.

OP, I'm with you. Yeah, the kid was behaving like a total brat, but I'd have been really shocked if my daughter kicked a much younger child - or anyone! - in the face. I wouldn't have been able to see past it.

violinrosa, not kick, no, but if you were wet and naked -or just in your scanties trying on - and an intrusive face appeared under the door, would you really double over and push it away with your hand or use your bare foot?

Or would you just not care that a rude person was checking out what you looked like (semi) naked and vulnerable?

But perhaps it's cultural. I know we've had German visitors who were very relaxed about wandering between bathroom and bedroom with not much on, including a blonde teenage goddess who casually drifted into the sitting room to chat clad in just a towel, striking my DS (a couple of years younger) speechless!

It's the prurient furtiveness of fully clothed people squinting through cracks and peering under or over partitions that offends me; most unpleasant.

I do think most modest people's knee-jerk reaction would be to wield a foot. It isn't really a kick any more than pushing someone away with your hand is hitting them.

DrivingMsCrazy

The consequences of a kick to the face can be serious. We don’t know if she had shoes on or not. That’s the top and bottom of it. And go away with your “innocent little” blah blah. The attitudes on this thread are what turn my stomach. Gang of thugs.

While I agree with the "kicking isn't great" replies, and if she really did kick the little girl hard, she needs to be told it's not the best way to defend herself. However, I'm glad the OP's DD defended herself one way or another, as she couldn't remove herself from the situation, and she didn't face draconian punishments because of it. I think it can be very damaging if a child gets the idea they're not allowed to do something to defend themselves, and they're just supposed to take shit thrown at them. I can remember a moment or two from my childhood when I did similar, and the punishments that came after were all about what I did to defend myself: the provocation that came first was totally irrelevant to everyone else, and I'm still bearing grudges.

I feel strongly about this, because throughout my childhood my younger brother kept on deliberately provoking me and winding me up, and the way my parents dealt with it taught me that I wasn't allowed to anything about people who pestered me, and even doing nothing seemed to be the wrong thing to do.
If I asked for help, I was "telling tales" or "being sensitive" or "bickering" or "being difficult".
If I resentfully ignored it, I was "letting him bully me".
If I told him "no" or to "stop it", I'd hear "he's only little".
If I teased him back, he'd run crying to them, and I'd be punished every time.
If I ever did anything physical to him, I'd be punished every time: I had one of my worst childhood smackings ever (the irony!) for giving him the lightest tap.

I actually used to loathe school holidays, because they meant spending time with him. I remember being baffled by my peers doing karate and self-defence, because I'd got the idea that self-defence was totally wrong.

All this gave me the idea that I wasn't allowed to stand up for myself, or to fight my corner when I felt something was wrong, and it gave me real problems as a young adult; I was very unassertive, was a total pushover and people-pleaser, and would take all sorts of shit. I didn't learn to assert myself until much later (and had a moment of triumph when he himself told me "wow, you're assertive now!").

Haven't RTFT, but find responses on here shocking.
OP you are definitely right to be worried about your DD's response. I work with 10-year olds, loads of them for years in a rough inner city setting, and seriously, I can count on the fingers of one hand the ones who might have reacted in this way. Most wouldn't dream of it, it wouldn't occur to them.
If something like this had happened in a school playground, if someone's 6-year old had been lashed out at by an older child, I am almost certain the response would be different.

think it can be very damaging if a child gets the idea they're not allowed to do something to defend themselves, and they're just supposed to take shit thrown at them.

Of course, but a ten year old is perfectly capable of listening to the following: “If you feel physically threatened, or if someone is attacking you, it’s fine to defend yourself physically, but you can only do as much as you need to do to get them off you.” And if they don’t understand, you give examples, and you ask questions.

In this situation my ten year old would be led to question that response.

The kick wasn’t really ideal but I could understand why she did it

The 6 year old was being very rude, and refused to listen to anything.

Your dd was getting changed and felt uncomfortable by this child’s actions.

She repeatedly asked her to leave her alone, and the child refused. This caused your dd to lash out as most people would have done.

I won’t say serves her right, but in a way it did

im with your dd.

she told her to go away, she shouted at her to go away, she shook the door at her to go away. what else was she meant to do?

she kicked at the only part of the girl that was visible - unfortunate that it was the girls face but the other girl has learnt a valuable lesson.

Of course the responses would be different if this happened in a school playground because that would be an entirely different set of circumstances.

I imagine a six-year-old trying to look at other children under school toilet cubicles would be taken seriously regardless of the kick and rightly so.

To add I know these are DC though a kick in the face or head Imo should be prosecuted as attempted manslaughter.
OP was rightly shocked I'd teach my DD about the possible deadly consequences of her angry actions./

Over the top comment goes to the above.

The daughter did right, she deserves her privacy.

OP, I'm with you. Yeah, the kid was behaving like a total brat, but I'd have been really shocked if my daughter kicked a much younger child - or anyone! - in the face. I wouldn't have been able to see past it.

Same with me. My DD1 (10) can be quite intimidating sometimes, when the 'red mist' descends on her. She's been violent to me and to DD2 (7) in the past and can also cause injury without meaning to (she throws things in a temper and doesn't worry about who might be in her line of fire).

The problem with an incident like this is that the younger child's mum could potentially call the police, as criminal liability starts at 10 years old, that's what I would be worried about (as well as being concerned that the other child might end up with a broken nose).

Some of you are acting like she deliberatly knocked a child down and kicked their face in.
She was literally being repeatedly harrassed in a chsnging room, and she gave clear non violent warnings, and then she physically stopped the other kid from harrassing her with the only body part that could reach. She was likely panicking too.
Doesnt sound like the other kid was battered and bleeding or im sure the other mother would be more bothered.

If a mans face appeared under the door when i was changing then id kick them in the face, and for a child, another child is as much of a threat, as they dont have the same frame of reference and that young child was breaking an incredibly important boundary repeatedly.

I would talk to my child, but id feel bad that i didnt do more to protect her from this harrassment when she was vulnerable, and id be worried that she would possibly refuse to use changing rooms or public toilets again.
The other kid, id hope they werent too hurt, but id also hope theyd learnt a valuable lesson, because it sounds like words and requests were not effective

@churchandstate
The 10 year old is autistic (likely) what on earth makes you think thats a clear direct instruction for an autistic kid. Thats incredibly nuanced for a 10 year old, and irrelevent to when someone is feeling violated and threatened.

Branleuse

She may be autistic. And you can simplify the language but the message has to be in line with what is actually permitted under the law.

I think the law would be extremely lenient here given the context. I guarantee it

Branleuse

And yet, I wouldn’t recommend trying to teach any child, let alone a child with ASD, that it’s okay to kick people in the face because, in this or that context, you might get away with it.