DD kicked a child in the face

[OutlawTorm]

Took DD (10) shopping for clothes to spend her Christmas money. She was trying on clothes in a cubicle when a little girl (aged about 6?) came along and bent down to look under the cubicle door. DD told her to away. The girl laughed and stuck her head under the door again. DD shouted at her to stop it. I tapped the girl on the shoulder and asked her to stop it as it was rude. The girl laughed at me and stuck her head under the door again. DD shouted and banged on the door. I asked the girl where her mum was and she stuck her tongue out and put her head back under the door. DD then kicked her in the face. The girl scrambled away, started crying and holding her face. I shouted at DD and asked the girl if she was ok and where was her mum (so I could go and speak to her!) the girl shouted “shut up” at me and ran off. I followed her, out of the changing room, into the main store, followed her until she went up to an adult and started walking over. The woman asked her why she was crying and the girl shouted at her to shut up. I walked over and explained that my DD had kicked her as she kept sticking her head under the door whilst she was getting changed. The woman said “well, now you know not to do that!” ... she apologised to ME and walked off!!!

DD came out of cubicle as if nothing had happened. I said “what were you thinking? You could have seriously hurt her” and DD replied “wish I had”.

She is currently under CAHMs for behavioural problems, suspected aspergers, worrying behaviours. DH thinks I’m over reacting as “even the kids mum wasn’t bothered” but I am! It’s not a normal reacting to being annoyed is it? Kicking them in the face?

Tbh If anyone kept doing that to me I’d have to seriously challenge myself not to kick them in the head. Most days are a challenge to me, I basically have the worst temper in the world.

@panicamdrun that was a typo. I meant you can't go round kicking little kids. I can't believe so many people are defending the OP's child. OP is right to feel horrified. If she'd pushed her face away in a fit of rate I'd be much more understanding, but kicking in the face is extreme.

Well maybe she did push her but with her foot. Because it was closer to the floor than her hand.

Not thinking that she's not a horrible,violent,anger management needing, vile child is not the same as thinking that it wasn't the best course of action. Of course OP should talk to her later about managing emotions,why we don't hit, what else could she have done instead etc.

But she didn't do that either. She shouted at her DD, left her alone, then told her off again for not being more empathetic, when very possibly her DD still hadn't calmed down yet.

Just wonder if there will be the same consensus when in 10 years time the 10 year old is 20 and her partner kicks her in the head to teach her consequences for her annoying actions after telling her not to 4 times. This was a 6 year old who was kicked in the head for doing something annoying. The adults who say they would do the same and label her a shit need to take a long look at themselves. How can kicking a six year old in the face ever be ok?

The 6 year old had 4 warnings. Actions, consequences. No, what your DD did wasn't great, but it was completely understandable and I'm on board with your DD and the other girl's mother. Sometimes boundaries have to be learned the hard way.

If the 10 year old is trying to forcefully violate her partner in a confined space and break the law then I would say her partner is reasonable to take the necessary measure to protect themselves.

shouted at DD and asked the girl if she was ok

I followed her, out of the changing room, into the main store, followed her until she

DD came out of cubicle as if nothing had happened. I said “what were you thinking? You could have seriously hurt her” and DD replied “wish I had”.

She is currently under CAHMs for behavioural problems, suspected aspergers, worrying behaviours.

It’s not a normal reacting to being annoyed is it?

This is a struggling 10 yo girl with possible SEN. Where is OP's concern for her own child? Her emotional state? Her well being?

Not for the normality of her behaviour or whether it was acceptable or not. It wasn't and a talk was needed. But where is the worry if HER child is ok?

"Do you have it in for your daughter"

So teaching your child that regardless what a person has do ne doesn't warrant them b ei ng kicked in the face, is "ha ving it in for them"

Exactly. No matter what they have done.

I don't plan to raise my children in that mind frame. Especially my daughters.

If somebody is threatening to you you protect yourself.

Or are you saying there will never be a scenario where a boot to the face is the right answer?

Where did this teaching happen? I haven't read any of it in OP's posts .

And since a lot of posters including OP are so happy to play the what if game...

What if next time she stuck her head and found a bloke in there who would've been more than happy to be naked in front of her or open the cubicle door and let her in?

I am probably going to go against the grain here. As a parent of a child (almost adult child) with autism I don't think it is ok for her to get away scot free with this, she does need to see there are consequences to her actions, autism and other mental health problems are an explanation not an excuse.

Yes the young child was very out of order, but your daughter does need to realise there are other ways to deal with this. Luckily for your dd, the woman was very understanding of your daughter's actions based on her own dds actions but that won't always be the case. At 10 a child can obviously be held legally accountable for physically assaulting another child (even if provoked sadly the law doesn't always take this into account).

I hope you and your daughter get the support you need from CAMHs (not always as gorth coming as we would like I know)

I'm a bit disappointed that so many think what OPs DD did was justified. I understand that DD is only 10 so needs guidance on appropriate responses and OP should have done more. Also agree that DD doesn't need a telling off, just a chat about what she should have done instead.

But, I work in a primary school and the levels of violence we have to deal with are awful, children hit and kick each other daily, and seem to think hitting is an appropriate response to almost anything. We really try to educate them that it isn't but from some of the responses on this thread I can see how they feel this way. Annoying child? Just hit/kick them if they don't listen.

And all the comments about what if it was a voyeur, it was a small female child, I would hope that a 10yr old knows the difference. And OP didn't say her DD was naked, just changing, unless she was trying on a swimsuit she is unlikely to have been naked.

The adults who say they would do the same and label her a shit need to take a long look at themselves

Or maybe the 6yr old should have a parent who supervised them enough to prevent situations escalating to this?

Fact is everyone has a limit, some people never get to theirs and some people really have to work to control theirs but it’s not socially acceptable to either lash out or provoke people.

The 6yr old is not responsible for her behaviour her parents are but if you’re the one being provoked you’re under no obligation to start considering extenuating circumstances.

I wouldn’t and never have laid a finger on anyone as an adult but I will not apologise for what I think. Expecting a 10yr old in a vulnerable, cornered position to control themselves impeccably is big ask. It should absolutely be talked through about what is and isn’t acceptable in the position she was in but it’s completely understandable why she did lash out.

You don’t have to condone it to understand it.

@Butchyrestingface my parents would have said something similar! Serves her right being so rude and aggravating. Maybe she won’t be so annoying in the future

So teaching your child that regardless what a person has do ne doesn't warrant them b ei ng kicked in the face, is "ha ving it in for them"

There are definitely some situations in which kicking somebody in the face is totally acceptable. I was raped at 15- my DM (who drilled into me my whole life that I should never use violence even to defend myself) bitterly regretted having raised me that way and has told me so several times during my adult life.

‘Violence is never the answer’ is not true. Girls and women need to know how and when to defend themselves.

You can never say ‘serves her right’ about such a young child. I despair.

Natural consequences.

If you jump from the clinch you risk hurting yourself. If they then jump I would care for any injuries but they would have no sympathy and I would tell them it's their fault.

If you don't adhere to somebody's boundaries. If you violate them and don't follow their warnings. Then you open yourself up to them enforcing those boundaries in a way they deem necessary.

I'm a bit disappointed that so many think what OPs DD did was justified. I understand that DD is only 10 so needs guidance on appropriate responses and OP should have done more. Also agree that DD doesn't need a telling off, just a chat about what she should have done instead.

And probably the majority that disappointed you would entirely agree with it . They took objection to OP's tone and wording though and the fact that she seems to have wanted more punishment for DD.

She seems almost disappointed herself that the woman didn't react more negatively and that her DH didn't engage in her righteous outrage.

Good job your dd didn’t knock her out with a kick, or the child lost an eye. Can’t believe people are actually condoning violence. I despair at human behaviour sometimes, I would be mortified if my dc displayed that level of violence.

So a child is changing in a private area, vulnerable, and defended herself after 4 warnings that the purposeful peeping wasn't ok... And people think that she's violent?! Wtf?

This child warned the 6 year old naughty child to stop. I'm horrified that the op didn't grab the child away/block her/call staff when it became clear what she was up to. She shouldn't have been left to do it on her own, supervision is best, but if you act like that it's little wonder the poor ops DD reacted that way!

What else was she supposed to do exactly?

The level of "we don't hit" level of middle class hand wringing here is astonishing.

I'm not suprised that a compromised and vulnerable 10 yo has physically lashed out after 4 verbal warnings by her and OP failed.

The problem with a gentle, nicely, nicely approach to life is that very occasionally being nice and reasonable is never going to work with some people who can cause you harm. Reason should usually be the first port of call, but if you are threatened, you should be able to defend yourself appropriately and the law is relative to situations, not absolute.

At 16, at the bus stop, the bullies trying to drag me to the ground had established history of ignoring reasoning to leave me alone. They got physical, so I responded in kind. I didn't bother with pointless niceity that time, just unhooked my shoulder strap off my bag, let it drop under the bully's and its own weight, and as a lovely bonus, the metal buckle swung round and cracked her on the nose. The bus turned up as she picked herself up and she shouted "what did you do that for?" My response was "you deserved it!" They never went near me again unlike all the times I ignored them or told them to leave me alone.

In my twenties, I woke up and realised I was being sexually assaulted by an aquaintance. My reaction was to kick him in the face. Hard. I bloody well hope it hurt. That kick may have saved me from rape.

Obviously a 6 yo is below the age of criminal responsibility and being a rude nuiscence rather than the more serious descriptions that would be applied to adults displaying the same behaviour. However to a 10 year old who has a need for privacy, that is little comfort.

As an adult in this situation, I'd probably get down to the child's level and talk close to their face which tends to have a different impact to shouting, but OP's DD doesn't have that extra life experience, and long experience of working with children.

The 6yo should have been appropriately supervised, not AWOL and able to get into that position. Although the natural consequences stance is something I'd share with my DCs when one has been particularly antagonising or immune to reason. If DS1 in particular (ASD) has been excessive with DS2 (9&6) we talk about how the situation could have been managed differently. Getting cross with him when he feels wronged and has been unable to cope or mask any more gets us nowhere.

@OutlawTorm where have you gone?
I'm not going to get bogged down with whether your daughter was right or not but I'm surprised you're less supportive of her: posting on an Internet forum. She's YOUR CHILD!! I'd be looking at coping strategies moving forwards. If you observed this rails episode then I definitely think you are responsible as the adult, also having the knowledge that your DD might struggle to act appropriately. You could have stood in front of the changing room, thus blocking off 6yo and making your child feel secure. I have a 6yo son and am pretty shocked that his mother didn't have an eye on him.

I feel for your DD ; we have all acted inappropriately at times on the spur of the moment, out of anger or whatever, I know I have at least, but I've regretted it later and probably so does she.

It’s the face kicking that is the issue. Nobody is saying she shouldn’t have acted but not in that horrific way.

The level of "we don't hit" level of middle class hand wringing here is astonishing.

I don't think it's linked to class so much as intelligence. The yob mentality is huge on this thread.

This 6 year old has been called a shit, a brat, feral among other things, not to mention 'good' 'that will teach her' (do people truly believe that?) and not more than she deserves' - a 6 year old