Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Jolyon Maugham should be prosecuted for killing a fox

386 replies

halocompanach · 26/12/2019 11:41

Jolyon Maugham QC stating on twitter that he has clubbed to death a fox rather than calling for help to free it from netting in his garden.

Jolyon Maugham should be prosecuted for killing a fox
OP posts:
Fr0g · 27/12/2019 20:51

It had apparently got caught in the netting of his chicken cage - difficult one, my sister once had to kill a munkjack deer that she came across injured in her garden (after midnight, and she was in evening dress).

I am a huge animal (and chicken) lover, but if the fox was badly injured, not sure what else he was supposed to do.
What the prat shouldn't have done though was boasted about it on twitter.

If he is going to keep urban chickens, he should get a sturdy cage, like the omlet ones from eglu.

AutumnRose1 · 27/12/2019 21:07

Fr0g “and she was in evening dress”

As with the kimono, I’m curious why this is relevant.

ThunderboltandLightning · 27/12/2019 21:15

should go and observe in an abbatoir for an hour or two

I have spent several weeks working in an abattoir. I saw nothing that would compare with the terror of a conscious wild animal being whacked with a baseball bat.

OldCrone · 27/12/2019 22:20

There's no point in prosecuting someone unless they've broken the law!

I don't think battering with a baseball bat is an approved method of killing a fox, and it almost certainly involved unnecessary suffering for the animal. How can you be so sure that no laws were broken?

www.gov.uk/guidance/foxes-moles-and-mink-how-to-protect-your-property-from-damage

TheTinselrati · 27/12/2019 23:48

Ah well done @Jilly. Yes that it.

So his hen hutch was doing dilapidated back in Nov. But instead of securing it, so both choirs & foxes would be safe, he left it all rickety so he would have another opportunity to tweet about wearing his wife's kimono whilst wielding a baseball bat.

What an Utter cock!

TheTinselrati · 27/12/2019 23:49

🐥 chicks not choirs!

🦊

Equanimitas · 28/12/2019 01:17

He's known his hen house had security issues for some time now but didn't sort it out.

He put netting round which stopped the fox getting to the henhouse. Sound pretty effective to me.

Equanimitas · 28/12/2019 01:27

In that case the fox he killed was not, in this instance, vermin as it didn't destroy any lifestock.

How do you know, OP? Given that it was in the vicinity of the henhouse, do you seriously think it was there to pay a social visit.

I saw nothing that would compare with the terror of a conscious wild animal being whacked with a baseball bat.

I doubt the fox knew anything about it. It was probably much more distressed by virtue of being trapped in chicken netting, The RSPCA guidance quoted above requires the fox to be killed in those circumstances.

Dangerfloof · 28/12/2019 05:26

He put netting round which stopped the fox getting to the henhouse Sound pretty effective to me

This is not how you make henhouse safe, this leads to other animals getting trapped. As has been asked before, were it his neighbours cat, would he have bashed its brains in?
And the lack of brains in someone who would just throw some netting down hoping that would be effective, without thinking through the possible consequences to other animals is astounding.

And the RSPCA have never said that a trapped animal has to be brained to death, more killed in a humane way. A fucking bat is not humane.

NearlyGranny · 28/12/2019 05:39

If he erected the netting, he had wire snips that he could have fetched to free the animal. It hadn't got in, so no hens were harmed (and yes, I do know what a fox can do in a henhouse!) and the fox was trapped, not injured as far as we know. A little patience, wirecutters and a stout pair of leather work gloves would have been the right response. I assume he damaged the netting anyway clubbing the trapped fox. 🤢

I understand he can't keep a gun where he lives, but what on earth is the baseball bat for? It's a thug's weapon - why would a QC even have one? Does he keep it in his car boot?!

The only time I've known an animal clubbed to death it was a dugite in the grounds of a primary school. I watched the principal set off after it with a plastic Kwik cricket bat. 🥺 She got it, too! She was a braver woman than I or any of the other staff, male or female. I approved her action because the dugite was a threat to the lives of a couple of hundred children.

OldCrone · 28/12/2019 08:39

The RSPCA guidance quoted above requires the fox to be killed in those circumstances.

Which RSPCA guidance is that? I'd like to see the guidance from an animal welfare organisation that says that if an animal becomes entangled in netting it should be clubbed to death, even if it is uninjured.

chomalungma · 28/12/2019 09:29

I understand he can't keep a gun where he lives, but what on earth is the baseball bat for? It's a thug's weapon - why would a QC even have one? Does he keep it in his car boot

Because he has received a lot of death threats from people over Brexit? Because people know where he lives?
Because he is a target?

TomPinch · 28/12/2019 09:44

The RSPCA won't prosecute him. Probably because he hasn't actually broken the law, but even if he has, there will be no evidence.

The RSPCA are only getting involved because they want to be seen to be doing The Right Thing in the face of some internet rage. Of which this thread is a part.

koshkat · 28/12/2019 09:57

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

OldCrone · 28/12/2019 10:04

Probably because he hasn't actually broken the law, but even if he has, there will be no evidence.

He battered a fox to death using a baseball bat. It is illegal to use anything other than humane methods to kill a fox (in case you're in doubt, this is not classed as humane). It is very likely to have caused unnecessary suffering to the animal (also illegal).

The evidence is that he admitted to doing it, and the RSPCA saw and removed the body.

KareyHunt · 28/12/2019 10:27

in case you're in doubt, this is not classed as humane

I'm in doubt!

DoesntLeftoverTurkeySoupDragOn · 28/12/2019 10:29

If it was a single blow it was humane.

Thing is, only one person knows.

DoesntLeftoverTurkeySoupDragOn · 28/12/2019 10:30

And for the hard of thinking who believe I'm a fox killing nutter with a designer cross breed (you know who you are) I wouldn't do it.

Dangerfloof · 28/12/2019 10:42

Because he has received a lot of death threats from people over Brexit? Because people know where he lives
Because he is a target
I'd never heard of him before so no clues on this, but in a later tweet he admitted the bat was self defence, cant remember the exact wording.
But were he to have a home invasion where a person was walloped with a baseball bat any time in the future he has a weapon he admitted to buying for the purpose and used, isnt that premeditation?
I'm not a solicitor or a bar member etc but I think that's a bad thing to admit to on a global stage.

Equanimitas · 28/12/2019 10:52

in case you're in doubt, this is not classed as humane

Why? It's a quick death that the animal knows nothing about. If you come across a distressed animal that needs to be quickly put out of its misery, what do you suggest people do if they don't have a gun to hand?

Which RSPCA guidance is that?

My mistake, it's the government guidance linked above.

KareyHunt · 28/12/2019 11:09

But were he to have a home invasion where a person was walloped with a baseball bat any time in the future he has a weapon he admitted to buying for the purpose and used, isnt that premeditation?
I'm not a solicitor or a bar member etc but I think that's a bad thing to admit to on a global stage.

Self defence is self defence! Premeditation does not make it unlawful.

KareyHunt · 28/12/2019 11:12

My mistake, it's the government guidance linked above.

Incidentally, neither the government guidance, any advice from the RSPCA nor anything on any other website is the law.

Dangerfloof · 28/12/2019 11:23

Self defence is self defence! Premeditation does not make it unlawful
It's not my area so I'm not certain at all.
But there have been cases in the news about stuff like this. Of course I cant think of any words to Google to find the cases (curses menopause)

So if you played cricket, and happened to have cricket gear upstairs in your bedroom and a home invasion happened, you could potentially use your cricket gear to hit the invader. Assuming invader made it upstairs and your scared for your life

However if you instead ran down to the kitchen to grab your biggest knife/baseball bat/cricket bat, then that's premeditation?

Like I say I dont know.

TomPinch · 28/12/2019 11:38

@OldCrone

There is no law that says you may not kill a fox with a baseball bat (or any other way).

Whether it caused unnecessary suffering depends on precisely how it happened.

The only thing he's clearly done wrong is making a joke about it. But everyone ought to know that there's no law against that, which is why all the harumphing is just a bit much.

Jillyhilly · 28/12/2019 11:43

what on earth is the baseball bat for

He tweeted that he had it to discourage intruders.

Detailed article here about the legalities of this situation

barristerblogger.com/2019/12/26/should-jolyon-maugham-be-prosecuted-for-bludgeoning-a-fox-to-death/

...which seems to conclude that no, he should not be prosecuted, but that of course doesn’t necessarily mean he won’t be. This case is now so high profile that it puts the RSPCA in a rather interesting position. (If indeed it actually happened. I still have my doubts.)

Either way, this whole incident leaves a very strange taste in the mouth about JM, and I would imagine he’s had a difficult - and very embarrassing - few days, to say the least.