I am dreading tomorrow because of religion!

[StinkyXmasCheese]

Dreading tomorrow with my family.
They are all strong in their faith Christians and I know there will be praying and thanking god etc.
I was brought up Christian but am no longer and I'm actually quite angry about religion at the moment. (Working through these issues with my counsellor.)
I know Christmas is a Christian holiday but I know I can't have a drink or I'll say something to cause an argument and I have to bite my tongue.
I've already said to dh that we're going away for Xmas next year cos I just don't want to deal with it.
I don't know how I'm going to get through the day without letting something slip!

Yes I do suggest we report these links and specifically the threats and evangelising. Does @MNHQ allow evangelising?

@lifeisgoodagain Of course sounds bitter! Did you ever think she has reason to be?!?? If you were emotionally and psychologically affected by your upbringing, you would be, too! Why is it that those on here who call themselves 'Christians' are the ones with the least empathy and lack a sensitivity chip? Just more proof to me, proving my theory that many Christians are soul-less, cold, and uncompassionate and only think of themselves.

I'm as atheist as they come. But surely this is a debate. And i believe that the poster has the right of free speech. She is giving her argument and giving what she believes is supporting evidence.

I think she's wrong. But I don't think her posts themselves are wrong.

Oh dear. Biscuits sounds like one of those people who goes on to Matt Dillahunty's show to try and 'prove' Christianity. (Clue; it never ends well)

@MerryChristmasUfilthyanimal This is not a thread for 'debate'. This is a thread from someone who has clearly been psychologically and emotionally scarred by religious proselytising, so basic common sense and empathy, compassion and self awareness would surely suggest one knows this is definitely not the thread for a 'debate' about religion.

It's the same as if the OP had written a thread saying she had been sexually abused by a priest. What type of person would honestly think such a thread where a person poured out their pain and hurt, was an appropriate thread to goad the OP even more by attempting to proselytise to them? Would you go on a thread started by a person who had been molested by a priest, and attempt to 'debate' with them??

For goodness sake, have some sense of social ability and social awareness.

I do not agree with Take's point of view but think that there is a certain honesty in her position. She does not shy away from, or obfuscate, the elements in the Bible that run counter to modern mores and I thank her for that.

Evangelism was seen as a moral enterprise until relatively recently and I think it can be hard for those brought up in the tradition to let go of it even although it does not square with what most people think of as respectful behaviour nowadays.

But as happens to most threads they ever vastly off course and turn into a debate.
The best course of action would be not to engage.
Then the poster wouldn't be responding.

But MNHQ are doing their job. Her second post insinuating that non Jesus followers will
Burn in hell has also now been deleted. Well done. This communicates what MN deems permissible.

She does not shy away from, or obfuscate, the elements in the Bible that run counter to modern mores and I thank her for that

Well, that’s not true, is it? She’s just pretending that there are no elements in the Bible that “run counter to modern mores”.

But it’s always been true that the fundamentalists of any religion are actually the more honest.

I think she's wrong. But I don't think her posts themselves are wrong

Agree. I don’t think she should have been reported. Banning people from expressing their opinions about religion is causing (literally) death and horror in other countries. I am proud that we don’t live in a country like that.

And she wasn’t threatening the OP with hell, just we heathens. And I think we can cope with that, tbh.

Well that escalated quickly! I feel for the OP if biscuit is an example of the blind religious nuttery she was subjected to. OP. I'm glad the day was bearable. Hope you're chilling now. As for biscuit..have one of these

@ChestnutSmoothie There is a time and place to express opinions. I don't think the thread of a victim of religious proselytising and brainwashing is such a place or time. Common sense alone, says that.

I really don't understand why this even needs explaining.

Sarah if ,*biscuit" is anything like my mother she will be siding with OP's family, praying for them to make OP see the light, "knowing" that OP is not really traumatised because god doesn't do that, "knowing" that the devil is messing with OP's head and must be fought off.

Batshit crazy, of course. While you can't argue with stupid, lurkers gonna lurk and it is the school holidays.

SarahNade Stop patronising me, thanks. You don’t need to “explain” anything. I disagree with you. That is also still allowed, believe it or not.

If you look at the first posts on this thread it’s full of the “ ‘ave a bit of respect” brigade nonsense. The Biscuit poster has done a bang up job of showing that no, actually, we don’t have to automatically “respect” religion.

To be frank, I do understand why this needs to be explained to you as it’s not immediately obvious to everyone 😉

I won’t be surprised if Buscuitandsink is about to post saying she has prayed for all our souls here to be saved from eternal damnation for we know not what we do.

Yes I don't think this thread was the best place, buscuits - there are often debates over on philosophy and religion, they can be places to share stuff you would like to share. I understand where you're coming from (although I too struggle with the use of fundamentalist videos and articles, anything by Todd Friel immediately gets my back up as I find him harsh and stone cold, and very sexist, racist, homophobic etc.

I think your deleted post was addressed to me, I didn't have time earlier. All I want to say is that for me the Christian faith is not fear based but completely hope based, grounded in perfect love. So when I talked about offering my dc the opportunities to robustly question everything around faith it sprung from my assurance that a/ faith should be able to stand scrutiny, and if not is not tenable, and b/ everyone should have complete free choice, or faith would be a burden, a forced duty coming out of fear rather than out of a response to love.

OP I hope you are OK.

@ChestnutSmoothie You said: Banning people from expressing their opinions about religion is causing (literally) death and horror in other countries.

Such unnecessary hyperbole. Clearly it does need explaining, because NO ONE is suggesting people can't express their opinions about religion, just that THIS thread is not appropriate for it. Nothing is stopping that poster from creating a thread specifically to debate the issue. FML

Actually telling people “make Jesus your personal lord and saviour because you know what might happen to you otherwise don’t you” - is not debate, not respectful, not appropriate. The reporting of these posts was highly apt, the moderators agreed and the post was removed. To call that banning of an opinion is taking it very far.

Agreed, Thoughtlessinengland

There is a section where people can debate religion to their heart's content. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/philosophy_religion_spirituality

That's the place for it.

Oh dear I see @Takethebuscuitandthesink has posted more of those ridiculous YT videos. I see she still does not understand or maybe not care about what is called evidence.

From the last video she posted of so called 'evidence'.

1. Finding a stone that said 'Pontius Pilatus' is not good evidence that the everything in the Bible is true and proves nothing about the existence of a god.

Its like saying all the plants in Harry Potter are real plants, therefore everything in Harry Potters books are real and HP is a real Wizard.

1. Finding a tunnel that is like a tunnel in the Bible is not good evidence that the everything in the Bible is true and proves nothing about the existence of a god.

Its like saying the train station in Harry Potter is real, therefore everything in Harry Potters books are real and HP is a real Wizard.

1. Finding a clay cylinder that mentions a king who is also mentioned in the Bible is not good evidence that the everything in the Bible is true and proves nothing about the existence of a god.

Its like saying I found a really old reference to an Arthur Weasley, therefore everything in Harry Potters books are real and HP is a real Wizard.

1. Finding a stone that said 'the house of David' is not good evidence that the everything in the Bible is true and proves nothing about the existence of a god.

Its like saying you found an old reference to a 'Philosophers Stone' therefore everything in Harry Potters books are real and HP is a real Wizard.

1. repeat of point 4

1. Some writer once wrote that there was no town of Nazareth. Some archaeologist subsequently found evidence that could have been Nazareth is not good evidence that the everything in the Bible is true and proves nothing about the existence of a god.

Its like saying someone once wrote that London's famous Leadenhall Market doesn't exist but I find proof it might have done, therefore everything in Harry Potters books are real and HP is a real Wizard.

1. repeat of point 3

1. repeat of point 2

1. repeat of several points

In conclusion if their is evidence that the Bible is the most historically accurate book ever written then everything in Harry Potters book are very real and Harry Potter is a very powerful real wizard.

So could anyone provide ANY actual evidence that anything supernatural in the Bible is real and ANY actual evidence of ANY 'god'.

And oh dear, I see she has been banned.

What point is that @Papachair123? That some evangelical fundamentalists cannot be stopped from exhibiting their credulousness, inability to think intelligently or to evaluate their sources even when they are begged to stop embarrassing themselves and discrediting more thoughtful Christians — you know, the kind who think Genesis is a metaphor, and just try to get on quietly working for peace, justice etc?

New account post has also now been removed.

The irony is that in her posting history I've seen that Takethebuscuit can be very sensible and gives good advice otherwise. I agree with many things she says. I wouldn't like to see her banned for good. It seems it's just religion that makes her board the bus to crazy town. Opiate of the masses. Religion is really dangerous and can destroy people's minds. So many people are nice people, but if they start on religion, they really become unhinged to the point of obsession.