To think this was an an awful comment to makr

[Misscromwellrocks]

A friend of mine is having her parents and several siblings and nieces and nephews for Christmas Dinner.
A few of us were out last night and one of them remarked how busy she was and how much she still had to do. My friend said something like Oh I know how you feel and the response was 'well in fairness you don't have kids so it's not the same stress and hassle'.

My friend would love to have children and is a brilliant aunt but just hasn't met the right person and is now 43. She went very quiet and I could see she was trying to force herself to join in and be sociable for the rest of the night.

Aibu to think it was an insensitive and rude comment to make?

My god, some of the posts are so entitled. Everyone can have it stressful/ hard at Christmas, children or not! I'm going on 3 years of unexplained infertility. I would give anything for a baby. Not only that, I've been dealing with a huge amount of family strife that has been heartbreaking to see. A close aunt's massive stroke 3 days ago. My mother with heart valve issues who needs a lot of support for the aforementioned family strife. No one has a monopoly on stress at the holidays. And to the people who say, "just wait til you have kids. You will understand how hard it is." You can fuck off. I would do anything for a baby. The martyrdom of some parents is ridiculous.

I don’t think it’s thoughtless and/or insensitive, I think it’s downright deliberately mean and intended to be hurtful, an unsubtle way of saying “my life is more important than yours”.
Everyone knows some idiot like this

Sometimes people say things, that they don’t mean to cause offence and do sadly. anything child related could potentially offend and upset someone longing and failing to have a child,

On the flip side, I was chatting to a mum the other day and she was telling me about her holiday. She was a lil judgey and negative about kids with screens at meal times at their hotel vs their family communicating etc. Whilst I don’t allow screens at the dinner table, I did say that when I have 1:1 time with one of my children, they are very well behaved and I have great conversations, vs taking my two out who just competitively fight and argue. I mentioned she was lucky in a lot of respects to have one child who ends up very close, as I appreciated how wonderful it was to parent one, vs 2 + that may require a screen on the odd occasion to save sanity! I felt awful after I made the comment, as I thought she may have wanted more but unable etc, but also felt I should stick up for judged parents where other parents haven’t walked in their shoes.
Swings / roundabouts!

I would agree with the view that "all things being equal doing it with a family is harder" as being uncontroversial and self-evident.

For a start that could be said about any aspect of life. (All things being equal having less money is more harder, all things being equal having anxiety is harder) . Nothing is ever equal I don't think having kids makes Christmas difficult at all - it's just a load of fun. I would find it much more difficult if I was infertile.

@NoCleanClothes

They said all things being equal though?!

It is harder. Infinitely harder, with children. Does not excuse insensitivity or rudeness though.

BUT by fuck life is hard work. Single mumma here. Zero maintenance. Contact EOW - eg he has them 4 nights per month. I have forgotten who I am frankly as I just live one chore to the next. I go to bed later than I want, up earlier than I want. I work up to 80 hrs a week, trying to ‘have it all’ - but reality is either do that or drop to min wage/ universal credit. You imagine it if you don’t live it. I think about suicide frequently as I’m burnt out. Having children at Christmas can make it fun, yes, but also hard work and stressful as you have to provide/give etc

People referencing their husband going away akining that to being a single parent, Childless akining their dog to parenthood - makes my blood a lil heated! No it’s not in anyway the same.

The comment was thoughtless at the most. (Unless friend has poored their heart out about being childless...)

And yes, having children is hard work and can be very stressful.
My firm believe is, that nobody knows how much physical and mental stress is involved in raising children until you have them. Comparing elderly parents, dogs and otherwise to having children is bonkers. It's not the same.

I don't understand why childless people are sometimes so sensitive around the issue of having children. Parents can't hide children away, just in case they offend someone with their existence. They come up in conversation and are part of life.

I don't understand why childless people are sometimes so sensitive around the issue of having children.

well it seems that self-knowledge is one thing having children doesn’t confer.

Or escape from stupidity ...

@Ylvamoon do me a favour? Read my post from last night. Then come back and tell me why I'm sensitive about not having children this time of year.

A work colleague once said something similar to me. I find the Paddington hard stare accompanied by a simple 'Why?' is quite effective in making people think twice about what they've said.

And Rainrain I don't have children simply because the timing didn't work out for various reasons and I'm now too old. I'm at peace with it now as I was necer too sure about it anyway but it does still upset me on occasions. I cannot imagine how hard this time of year is for someone who really wanted children but was denied that. You sound completely lacking in empathy, I hope you're kinder in real life.

I am so so angry that people read what we say and yet dismiss it all and continue with nah it's harder with kids. Your life might be, but it's not necessarily true of everyone.

My life is harder without them. If I'd had kids I wouldn't have had to spend the last 9 years as a widow dreading Christmas.

While I've come to terms with it all now, it has been a long and painful journey and Christmas is still, and always will be, really fucking difficult.

Don't tell me that my life is less hard than yours. Don't tell me that everything I have to deal with - recovering from major surgery, running a business, nursing a terminally ill relative and supporting my elderly father on top of holding everything together and not having a breakdown - would be harder with kids. Just don't.

for Leigh

In something of a similar situation myself - it really does get easier. My 40s were really painful in that respect- but I came out of it in my mid-50s and menopause wasn’t the awful mental moment I thought it would be.

My DB and SIL have more sleep and more down time than me since having three children. Mainly because it made them selfish meaning that I can do all the running, caring for older, sick parents and all the organizing. Yes a baby is tiring but that is just a phase, I battled insomnia too without having maternity leave. Their kids all slept through within a couple of months. Yes taking care of them is hard work but so is other stuff. Taking care of a terminal parent who can't walk, go to the toiletor get her own drink is tiring too!

For the tiredness argument:

I had insomnia for years before I had my child. I was tired.

Now I can’t sleep and my baby hasn’t slept in 12 months either. I habe sometimes felt so tired I could vomiting- a horrible weak ache running down my back. Anaemia don’t help either 😂

If you think parents complaining about tiredness is annoying then try receiving advice from people (even childfree people!!) to “sleep when the baby sleeps”. I continue with my life in a zombiefied state and have accepted that I probably will never have much good sleep. This doesn’t make me the most tired person on Earth or give me the right to make any comments about being tired. I do still feel deeply irritated when hearing either my sister or SIL complain about being tired when neither work nor have children and both sleep at least 8 hours a night (both love sleep and are good sleepers).

My husband and spent 5 years trying to start a family and throughout that time had to endure all these sorts of comments. We had everything ...

a) you don't know tired until you have kids

• I suffer from insomnia, and also have a chronic illness that means I struggle to fall asleep, then wake up multiple times overnight, and will then struggle to sleep again. It's an endless cycle. So yes, I know perfectly well how it feels to be tired, I've just learned how to cope without making a song and dance about it constantly. Since having a baby I've been more alert, as I can sneak in a few naps during the day (still on maternity leave)! In addition to that, the baby does not wake me up anywhere near as much as my illness does.

b) you wouldn't have time to do x, y, z if you had kids

• Both my partners, nor my in laws are unable to travel to ours, so we naturally always go to them. While we're there, we will end up doing errands, and all manner of jobs that they'll have saved up for us. Entire weekends are taken up like this. Our siblings with children always use the kids as a reason not to help out with these jobs. We've always been happy to help both our parents with anything they need but would resent that people think we're sat on our arse all every weekend doing nothing as that just isn't the case.

Funnily enough, since having our baby, we've continued to be the ones doing all the travel, all the errands.

c) you don't need time off around Christmas since you don't have kids

• I'm asking for time off between Christmas and New Year because I will be travelling and staying away with family as my parents can't travel to us and my sister insists on everyone coming to them - because they have kids and it's too 'difficult' for them. We have the baby, but are expected to travel. So whether we need time off at work has nothing to do with whether you have kids.

d) how come you're late? You don't have kids

• I'm late because my illness can flare at any time and often does when I'm leaving the house. No amount of planning or prep or leaving really can prevent this happening. Baby has only ever once caused me to be late in the last 6 months. My illness makes me late constantly.

People who come out with this cr8p generally were those that have had it easy their entire lives. They obviously have no comprehension of any other scenario that could possibly make life difficult or unpredictable for anyone else.

Oops, turned into a bit of a rant

for all those affected by this thread.

The all things being equal argument doesn’t work well in this sort of situation as there are so many variables. I found having children a great comfort when my parents died. They kept me grounded and focussed on the future. Others may feel very differently.

My life is not automatically harder than people without children.

Merry Christmas to anyone finding it a bit hard you are heard and there is love. Here’s to your day.

I’ve spent most of the Christmas period this year depressed and tearful because I don’t have a partner and children to share it with. Trust me, it can be a hideously lonely time of year. So yes, her comment was completely insensitive!

Being on the receiving end of these types of comments makes me feel suicidal at the moment-but am sure will get easier. Comment may be factually correct but can come across as viciously unthoughtful or unkind

People say that kind of shit are those that are so self centred that they cannot appreciate that other people's experiences can be or harder than their own. Says a lot about them as a person and not in a good way.

People who come out with this cr8p generally are just pretty stupid, tbh.

YANBU and if you're up to it, set your rude friend straight.

I have half a dozen children and I still do not assume I'm more busy than anyone else.

Also, manners cost nothing.

You could also tell your rude friend that only unorganised people are stressed by their workload.... I'm hosting 20 people in 2 days and I'm not stressed because I'm completely organised and I'm delegating.

Tell her to up her domestic game.

Leigh I know exactly where you are coming from. I too would have coped better with a triple bereavement of i had children. 💔💔💔

@ItsReallyNotOk can I apologise profusely for my post yesterday - I hadn’t read the full thread (I’m an idiot) and had no idea quite how bad your circumstances were. I feel very bad (and am not an awful person I promise). I hope you’ve had a wonderful day xxx