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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not give our 10 year old his Christmas presents?

323 replies

stardust22 · 22/12/2019 14:27

Our 10 year old is threatening to tell his 6 year old Sister that Father Christmas isn't real.

He is trying to use this information to black mail us. When he is given consequences he will say either cancel my consequences or I'll tell her the truth about Christmas.

We have said we won't put up with his behaviour & if he did tell her he would not receive any Christmas presents.

He is & always has been rude & aggressive. I don't know how much information to give as this has been on going since he was 4 years old.

My husband & I have discussed not giving Christmas presents to him previously but I have always said no way.

This year I am unsure..... I know it would cause massive upset & ruin our Christmas but he acts so entitled & really only cares about himself.
I don't think it will change his behaviour as nothing we have ever done has, we are just at a loss.

OP posts:
joan12 · 22/12/2019 16:24

Also it sounds as if the main issue may be that he feels controlled at times rather than parented, and is responding by becoming either angry or controlling in return. What does he get to control? What is he in charge of? Personally, I think it is harsh to keep him off games that all his friends are playing. Although I can't stand Fortnite the boys in ds class who don't play it are left out a lot as they can't talk about what everyone else is talking about and can't join in. We also had a huge rush towards a wish for greater independence and control aged 10, managed with the explosive child by allowing some more! Tricky as the eldest hadn't been bothered!

roseunicorn45 · 22/12/2019 16:25

This post gave me We Need To Talk About Kevin vibes.

TeddybearBaby · 22/12/2019 16:25

I’d been really disappointed if I was you op. My daughter is 10 and she is on her last year of believing. She’s very questioning though, I can tell she’s not 100%. She went to her brother, who is 13 to privately ask him his thoughts and he told her he totally believed and then told us about the convo.

It doesn’t sound like your son has any empathy and that would worry me too. He seems to have a lot of control issues. I wonder where that has come from..... I know you said it started young with not going to the toilet. I’m just wondering why. Sending you 💐.

joan12 · 22/12/2019 16:31

**He's copying you OP! Except he's not capitulating anymore so you've now got a problem on your hands!

This. You threaten and try and control his behaviour with threats. He feels angry and desperate and makes threats back. Time to take a step back and find another way. Some kids capitulate, but it really doesn't work with others 💐

stardust22 · 22/12/2019 16:31

I am reading all of your replies but I need time to think & reply properly.

concooktion - I confirm I have not taken him to the park after school with his friends again. He does after school clubs & he goes to the park on weekends but not after school.

I will be back later...

OP posts:
HopelessLayout · 22/12/2019 16:33

You need help. Get in touch with the CAMHS in your area. You may be able to self-refer, depending on where you live.
www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/nhs-services/mental-health-services/child-and-adolescent-mental-health-services-camhs/

FoamingAtTheUterus · 22/12/2019 16:39

Yes, reading through you do sound extremely controlling. As does his environment. He's responding to it by trying to gain the bits of control he can win as a ten year old can.

What sort of responsibility does he have for himself ?? Does he have any freedom ? At that age I'd be expecting a ten year old to be going on cinema trips or for a McDonald's with friends........building up to more responsibility when secondary school starts.

Allington · 22/12/2019 16:39

I echo what others have said about pushing for more help.

Start building the evidence - keep a diary, film his outbursts if possible. You need the details that show this is NOT normal.

So, for any incident - where, when, what appeared to trigger it, what did her do/say, how did you respond, how long did it last etc. That might also help you find some patterns to his behaviour.

Also note the positives in the same way - if he was co-operative then where, when, what triggered it etc

Make some one to one time regularly, and let him lead (you set the boundaries of when, how long, what can be spent), and then let him decide what he wants to do within those boundaries - as long as you are doing it together.

concooktion · 22/12/2019 16:41

I confirm I have not taken him to the park after school with his friends again. He does after school clubs & he goes to the park on weekends but not after school.

Ok, that's good, but does he get the distinction? Did you say "I'm not going to take you to the park again." Or did you specify "I'm not going to take you to the park again after school?"

halocompanach · 22/12/2019 16:46

We have said we won't put up with his behaviour & if he did tell her he would not receive any Christmas presents.

Have you already told him this? I think it's a mistake but if you have said it and don't follow through then what is his thread going to be next time? By saying it you've put yourself in a very difficult position.

Is there something that he really enjoys to do? Maybe use that (after Xmas) and say that he gets a set amount of time a day to do that (like on an xbox or whatever) but set the time to be less than he wants. He can then earn more time by doing something you want to encourage. I wanted my DS to tidy his room before Xmas, today he wanted 4 hours on his xbox for some fortnite competition but his room had to be done first (he's getting an xmas present which needs a tidy bedroom so he can get it set up but doesn't know that yet). No arguments and the room is done because he knows the xbox family safety would have it blocked until his room was tidy.

lisag1969 · 22/12/2019 16:46

Have firm boundaries and maybe take him to the drs in the new year. Maybe he needs some other intervention. X

reefedsail · 22/12/2019 16:50

This is not about Santa, it's about controlling behaviours.

The key question is WHY your DS is being controlling (evidenced by wanting things his own way and over-reacting when that doesn't happen).

Potential reasons:
He is anxious and countering this by controlling his environment.
He finds predicting the environment difficult so tries to control it.
He doesn't have much empathy so can't process why he shouldn't have things his way.
He's misinterpreted being loved as being facilitated and therefore feels rejected when he isn't in control.
He enjoys the sensation of having power over others and hasn't learned- or can't see any reason- to modulate this.

There are lots of potential reasons and it is really important to work out which it is as addressing the root cause is the only thing that will actually work.

kateandme · 22/12/2019 16:53

might sound a bit namby pamby but since youve tried all the punishments.could you perhaps try getting him onside?
so going tag team and acting like you really need his help. "so,we want to make chrismtas really cool this year but are stuck.do you think you could help,any ideas or decorations or baking we could do." and then just coast it for the next few days.going for a walk to get ingredients forcookies.making cakes. making paper chain decorations. big him up some."who needs santa when we got you eh"
get him some of those battery pack light for round his door.
have you tired making him feel good right now.
i know you have t stop his horridness.but he looks like hes a really unahppy boy and he will be scared himsel im sure as at his age he will be feeling just as conflicted and fucked up and if hes so angry it will feel horrible too

Canadianpancake · 22/12/2019 17:06

Could you source some play therapy for him? Or possibly theraplay for the two of you to help with your attachment and relationship?

Talltill · 22/12/2019 17:08

Have you already told him this? I think it's a mistake but if you have said it and don't follow through then what is his thread going to be next time? By saying it you've put yourself in a very difficult position.

You can say to your son "it was a mistake to say to you that you wouldn't get any presents if you tell your sister about Santa. I am sad and at a loss as to why you would want to do something so unkind though. ds, tell me what do you think will happen if you get your present early. How will you feel when you get it early and how will it be on Christmas Day when there is no present as you have already opened it? Either way you will get your present at Christmas whether you tell or not. If you tell her, I will have to spend a lot of special time with your sister to try and make Christmas magic for her and there will be less time for other things such as going [insert what ds likes to do]
This might diffuse the current drama.

Based on what you say though OP, it seems that there is a genuine issue with your ds. Maybe autism, maybe narcissistic traits, and maybe a bit of unassertive parenting as well. Not judging at all. Sounds horrendous and you have my sympathy. It's probably best if you see a professional about your son. His behaviour sounds worrying.

Lillygolightly · 22/12/2019 17:11

Ok a couple of things I want to note here:

Firstly is sounds like he might be jealous of his younger sibling. Obviously if her behaviour isn’t as challenging you won’t be telling her off or enforcing consequences like you have done for him. This can easily be perceived as favouritism or being loved less by the child. However at 10 years old he surely has to understand that the reason he gets treated as such is to do with his own behaviour and that if his sister behaved in the same manner she would get the same punishments as he does.

If also sounds like he may also be envious of his younger sisters excitement for Christmas and believing in Santa Clause as a child is a big part of that. Perhaps he wishes to ruin it for her so that she is on equal terms with himself and he is also clever enough to realise he has gains to make by threatening you with telling her. I also don’t know how he himself came to know that Santa wasn’t real, but maybe he found that more traumatic that you realised, some children can be very upset by this revelation.

How I would handle it, firstly I would take away the power of his threat by not allowing him to use it as a bargaining chip to get what he wants. Remember, he may indeed get what he wants and still tell her anyway. Instead of reacting when he makes the threat, simply shrug your shoulders as say ok then. You can always think of things to say to your daughter should he choose to carry out his threat.

Secondly and with regards to managing his behaviour, long term consequences and punishments for him seem to just be escalating and inflaming the situation. I’m not saying you shouldn’t discipline him, or that he shouldn’t face consequences for his actions. Instead what I propose is that rather than bad behaviour and punishments being the focus, switch to focusing on the times that he is good, even if he only manages an hour. If he has been good for that hour, follow it up with lots of praise and love bombing. Make it so that the rewards for behaving well are so much more enticing and worth while, than the attention he receives by behaving badly. It will take time, you will really have to stick with it because it’s going to take a good while for him to flick the switch in his brain, and even then he may do extra bad things in order to test your responses. However over time and with lots and lots of positive reinforcement, he will see that it really is in his best interests to be good, and see for himself that the attention he gets for behaving well is better than the attention he gets for being bad, he will also find himself feeling on much more equal ground in terms of love and attention with his sibling and less likely to feel the need to compete.

For the times he is ill behaved do not allow yourself to anger (of course you maybe raging on the inside) instead, be calm but dispassionate. Firmly and calmly explain what he has done wrong, explain the consequence and then carry it out. Make sure you tell him that you love him, but you do not love his behaviour right now, and that when he is ready to be well behaved again he can come and apologise and he can go back to playing or whatever. Don’t repeatedly bring up his bad behaviour, once he has served his punishment let it go and go right back to reinforcing the good behaviour as soon as he behaving well. Also make punishments short and simple and something he can easily equate to his bad behaviour, e.g. no iPad/TV for an hour. When he apologises, thank him for saying sorry, tell him you love him and redirect his attention to something positive.

All of this will take some time, you’ve got to really stick to it to break the cycle but it can be done. Do be prepared for the fact his behaviour gets worse for a short time, this will just be him testing his new boundaries, it does not mean that what you are doing isn’t working, rather the opposite in fact.

I hope you manage to have a lovely Christmas Xmas Smile

stargirl1701 · 22/12/2019 17:11

Keep a diary of incidents that are concerning you. But, don't start until after Christmas. Then go to the GP with the diary.

As for the threat. Be nonchalant about it. That's fine, dear. If he tells, he tells her. Laugh it off with her by saying it's just your brother being silly.

Do what you need to do to survive this holiday with some fun for your other DC. The rest can wait. Read the section in the book again about knowing when to push and when to let go. It's bloody hard. It's frustrating. You are exhausted and ground down by the same shit everyday.

Do you have nice things planned with your other DC? Having a nice 1 on 1 time with a child can restore your sense of being a capable mother. You can do this.

MammaMistletoe · 22/12/2019 17:23

Turn off the wifi at home for a day/night.

Stop visits to and from friends for a couple of weeks.

Take away electronics for a few days.

If he does tell his Dsis the truth about Santa, up the ante.

Though, tbh it sounds there could be deeper rooted issues here regarding your son. Maybe explore and try to resolve those first.

CFlemingSmith · 22/12/2019 17:27

If it’s been going on for that long, one lot of discipline (no presents) is really going to make sod all difference.
Something is going wrong day to day that needs a serious look at and why your child is behaving in such a way needs to be questioned.

HoHoHoik · 22/12/2019 18:05

Reading your updates, OP he is sounding more and more like my DS who is autistic. If DS wasn't supported, didn't have his sensory needs met, and didn't have tailored interventions for his social and emotional skills then these are the sorts of behaviours we would see (and sometimes do as we sometimes drop the ball, we're only human).

SalmonFajitas · 22/12/2019 18:12

Also it sounds as if the main issue may be that he feels controlled at times rather than parented, and is responding by becoming either angry or controlling in return.

This. I think it can become a negative cycle when a kid is acting up the parent tries to react with harsher discipline and it just reinforces the kid's instincts to exert control on their life and it goes round and round. Soon the kid is the bad kid in the family and the cycle continues.

SalmonFajitas · 22/12/2019 18:12

I did also wonder whether there might be some slight ASD PDA tendencies with this kid?

brighteyeowl17 · 22/12/2019 18:15

May be going against popular opinions I would explain that if he does this he loses Xmas presents and stick to it. Then I would try and get some advice on his behaviour as that is very calculated for his age.

Sweetpea55 · 22/12/2019 18:15

He needs sorting out.
Give him one present

Fcukthisshit · 22/12/2019 18:29

To be honest, I’d call his bluff and if he tells her I’d laugh and say “of course he’s real?? Where on earth have you heard that from? How do you think your presents turn up on Christmas morning?” Then say to your DD “isn’t little Johnny being silly! We all know that Santa is real - and that will be proved on Christmas morning”.

Further to this, I’d write a letter to both children from Santa explaining the importance of kindness towards each other and praising the great stuff that they’ve both achieved this year. Keep Christmas morning positive, don’t withhold his presents but going forward I guess you’re going to need to have a rethink on managing your boy. No idea what you should do as I’ve never been in your situation, but that would be my plan for managing the Christmas issue.

I hope you manage a nice Christmas x