To not give our 10 year old his Christmas presents?

[stardust22]

Our 10 year old is threatening to tell his 6 year old Sister that Father Christmas isn't real.

He is trying to use this information to black mail us. When he is given consequences he will say either cancel my consequences or I'll tell her the truth about Christmas.

We have said we won't put up with his behaviour & if he did tell her he would not receive any Christmas presents.

He is & always has been rude & aggressive. I don't know how much information to give as this has been on going since he was 4 years old.

My husband & I have discussed not giving Christmas presents to him previously but I have always said no way.

This year I am unsure..... I know it would cause massive upset & ruin our Christmas but he acts so entitled & really only cares about himself.
I don't think it will change his behaviour as nothing we have ever done has, we are just at a loss.

Our Son took the photos, picked & bought the pens he wanted, my husband just drove.
The online research was lead by my husband. Maybe this was the problem.... Our Son wasn't interested in the writing as he didn't enjoy writing back then but he didn't have to write much.

We stopped off at a Supermarket on the way home to get food but he refused to get out of the car. We didn't hold it against him or punish him but explained he should not behave that way.

Using this as an example, how did you explain it to him?

How about actually sticking to a consequences rather than repeatedly threatening it? You are in charge not the DC. Personally I'd happily give him the belt but that's not acceptable today so I'd suggest sticking to your boundaries no keep saying if you do this you will get punished, show him you mean business send him to bed without tv or super until he comes down and apologise to you all. Hes taking the absolute pee because he can and knows you wont punish him, hes got you bent over a barrel. You need to accept he may actually tell his sibling but he will loose his power if he follows through.

I think you need to relax the rules a little. I’m a firm believer in boundaries and consequences as they give a child structure and security. But it’s a fine balance. He’s 10.

The thing about not getting ready for school: he was probably tired, end of term, dragging his heels, just didn’t want to go. It’s normal.

Instead of threatening him with consequences, how do you think he would have reacted if your approach had been: I know you’re tired love, the last few days are really tough. I wish you didn’t have to get up this early either. But those are the rules. We can’t skip school because we want to. We just have to do it - everyone does. Come on. Let’s get in the car, get the day over with, and when you get home we can start the holidays properly. Hot chocolates for everyone at tea time, whipped cream for anyone who gets there before me!”

Would he still have behaved the same way? He did go into the car of his own volition, didn’t he?

Plus stop negotiating with him! You are the adult, if you go to the shops and he refuses to leave the car he will be made to do what hes told or he gets a punishment. Il glad to say I've never had to smack my DC because I made sure boundaries were in place from the start, I kept to them even if it meant me missing something or spent an hour with my dd screaming because I kept putting her back to bed. It's hard work but we dont negotiate we are in charge!

There's lots of talk about consequences, but what is meant here is punishment.
Not the same thing!

A consequence is that if they break a toy, they don't have that toy anymore.
A punishment is if they break a toy, they lose another toy.

Removing a console because of poor behaviour, is a punishment, if the behaviour is unrelated.

As an example, when DS got lower grades, he needed to study more. If he wasn't studying enough because he was spending too much time on his games, then game time was restricted until his grades got better.
He also understands why his grades must be good, because he should be well prepared for when the grades really count. Not because I want him to

Whilst I find @raspberrytruffle’s posts somewhat extreme I do believe the value of having a firm parent to hand. From your early posts I did think that a former hand (by which I mean approach, not physical hand) from his father (only because you pointed out your DS dislikes his sister but dotes in his brother; there are 13 boys in his class; etc - it seems he views males differently from females) would be helpful.

Now I wonder whether you being the carrot and your DH bring the last resort stick (not actual stick, @raspberrytruffle) with all the explaining of “why” that you’re currently doing would help your DS work his way through his struggles. Because he is struggling. It sounds like he’s trying to be good, at least some of the time, but sometimes he can’t control his wishes/needs enough - and that’s when you start with threatening consequences, and that stokes his fires more, and so it goes on.

If you’re generous, push him rather than pull him, with Daddy in the background as the last resort disciplinarian, that might give him room to check himself and choose the right path. It’s exhausting though, and not wholly fair to your other two. But that’s life. Every kid is different.

If the school wont help OP maybe you could reach out to the school nurse? I had a similar issue with the school with my ds behaviour, school weren't really listening when I brought up his behavioural issues at home and it almost like that didn't believe me and didn't offer any help so made an appointment with the school nurse and ds was referred to a pediatrician. Worth a try OP

@winniestone37: Judgemental much? OP has asked for help from her GP and is asking here. Some kids are just more difficult than others. It is only partially due to parenting. I see so many parents in my village who think they're the best parents ever because their kids do well in school. But I also see those kids mercilessly exclude other children.

And as for calling social services? You can wish to be as lucky that Karma doesn't smite your judgy ass one day when you least expect it.

Merry Christmas, OP, and good luck with everything. We're pulling for you!

You have my sympathies. Your DS sounds very similar to my DD at the same age...the behaviour, the uncontrollable ness, the impulsivity...threats and removal of possessions had no effect on her behaviour at all. It took us too long to realise that.
She has diagnoses of ASD and ADHD. School saw no problems at all except a quirky child.
I would go back to the GP and ask for a referral. If that doesn't happen, I would honestly go private...it was the best thing we ever did in understanding DD.

My heart is slightly breaking at the well meaning but completely divergent replies you have received OP.

My DS sounds very similar... he has a diagnosis of ADHD and will probably receive a further one of ASC with PDA presentation in due course. It is an utter nightmare nearly every day, we are on our knees, and parents who haven't experienced these behaviours have no idea of just how difficult it is.

The useful posts that stand out are by those in similar situations. Please get the diary started after Christmas and insist to your GP you go back to CAHMS and just get through the next two weeks as best you can, trying to encourage the positive whenever you can.

I would be looking at the PDA forums for advice on what to do rather than here....

You poor thing OP, for what it's worth I think you sound lovely!

My brother was an incredibly selfish child (not saying yours is but just made me think of him as the behaviour is the same) who found it impossible to put others needs first despite being able to empathise.

We never quite got to the root of it as he knew he was making people sad and sometimes even felt sad about that but just couldn't stop it once he knew what he wanted. If that makes sense?

Anyway we had family therapy which I'm not sure helped him that much but helped my parents think about how to approach things. Before then they relinquished power a bit and did what he wanted for the most part because it avoided the huge fallout that happened when he didn't get his way. Whoever shouts the loudest and all that.

Anyway I just wanted to tell you that despite yeaaaaars of that, he's now a soppy and kind man who will soon be a dad and puts his lovely girlfriend and future baby first always. There can be light at the end of the tunnel! It felt impossible at the time.

Also just to say I was your daughter - I always still now desperately crave the love of my brother and try so hard to get his approval and praise that it's a bit cringe!

So my advice for your little girl is to in an age appropriate way remind her that he gets cross easily and it isn't her fault, that she is a lovely girl and lovely sister he just sometimes takes a little longer to think about other people and you are proud she is still kind to him etc

That would have made the WORLD of difference to me and stopped some of my issues around approval and rejection. I did used to resent my parents for not doing something like that when I was little but now I'm technically grown up I do understand it more - parents are only human.

Hope that all makes sense?

I’m glad you’ve reached a positive decision over Christmas op. It must have been hard reaching out on here, knowing the mix of replies you may receive. It was a brave act and shows how much you love your son to seek help and advice. I hope you can get to the bottom of his behaviour and make life better for you all. Have a lovely Christmas 🎄 tomorrow.

I would make it clear that you are the parent, and you have decided what the consequence of any action he has taken will be.
If he carries out his threats, there will be consequences, and you will decide what they are. You do not give in to blackmail.
'The punishment fits the crime' as the old song goes. Okay, we don't have to frame them as punishments.
As far as possible, let him experience natural consequences.
E.g. if he breaks something of his own, it is gone and he doesn't have it any more.
If he tells his sister, she will be really upset and his little brother will find out, which will ruin Christmas for him too. And everyone will be really cheesed off with him. Maybe spell this out and suggest he thinks hard about what his threat will do and how bad he'll feel. Plus any consequence you decide to add.
Failing this, a logical consequence which helps link cause and effect thinking.
If he breaks something belonging to someone else, he has to replace it before he can spend any pocket money/allowance on things he wants. Or he has to do other additional chores which you can give a monetary value to until he has paid damages.
Example. Our youngest two fighting over the mixer tap in the kitchen (brushed chrome, my special choice, £175). Broke it, resulting in a water fountain in the kitchen.
OH supervised them clearing up the mess, then, they had to pay £35 each for a replacement (I went for a cheaper option to make it achievable for them).

Apart from this, it really sounds like he's struggling with some pretty big feelings and it would be really useful if you were able to explore what happened to trigger this. Were there any traumatic events around the time he started nursery (illness, family illness, loss, big changes etc).
This need for control can often come from a feeling that unwanted changes or negative experiences are happening to us, we can't do anything about them, so we look for anything to control to steady ourselves and feel a bit safer.

www.naotp.com/

Oppositional Defiant Disorder might be worth reading about, if it hasn't been mentioned on this thread so far.

I currently teach a boy who has a diagnosis of ODD who is an absolute delight in my lessons. He loves my subject, he works really hard and follows every instruction. ODD, like ASD, is a spectrum and not a 'one size fits all' issue. He doesn't have to be oppositional all of the time for this to fit.

I think you need to do four things (apologies if you've done them already):

1. Reduce your language. It sounds like you're doing a lot of talking, explaining, persuading, begging. When a child is in 'red mist' they don't hear what you're saying and they can't process what you're saying. So make it very simple. 'DS, we need to go in 5 minutes.' 'DS, have you got your shoes?' 'Time to go, DS.'

1. Give your DS a quick summary of how you expect things to go, so that he knows what is planned. E.g. 'We are going to Stanley's house and we need to leave at 1pm. I will give you a 5 minute warning. I need to you come away from Stanley's without a fuss.'

1. Give him fair warning when you're expecting him to do something that disrupts his 'plan'. Some kids can feel out of control if they suddenly have to jump up and go somewhere/stop doing something.

1. Consequences are consequences, not punishments. E.g. 'you didn't come away from Stanley's quickly, so I haven't got time to get the treat you wanted from the shop', not 'you were naughty at Stanley's so you're not getting your treat!'

I would also do an 'ABC' chart - A 'antecedents' what happened before the incident? B 'behaviour' what happened/what did he do? C 'consequences' what did you do/other people do as a result? How did it resolve?

Every child is different. One of mine needs lots of physical contact in a melt down to calm down, for another, physical touch is like red rag to a bull! You need to work out what helps.

Could be be hangry? DD3 used to get really hangry and we had to make a deal (when she was calm) that I could say "DD eat!" or "DD drink!" and she had to accept the thing I put to her mouth. Her blood sugar used to drop and she'd go wild. As soon as she'd eaten she'd be calm within 10 minutes.

I agree with earlier posters in that you need to see the Doctor again and again until you get the help you all need.

A couple of times over the years isn't enough. Unless there is some sort of funding you are hoping to apply for (thus involving the school for a reference) I'm not sure why you are appealing to them.

And another thing I agree with an earlier poster is his age. If you cannot get a handle (in whatever context that may be) over his behaviour in the very near future, you have lost all chances to get this sorted before the teen years and hormones strike.

Please do make it a priority to see your GP as soon as they re-open.

Good luck!

Stardust22 I work for CAMHS and this is exactly the sort of family we would work with if other things like parenting courses have been tried. If you are in the uk it is not true that school need to refer your go definitely can as it is a health service but some GP try to get out of doing it as it is a bit of extra work.

@sunshinemode GP wouldn't refer my son, the school had to do it. He said the referral would bounce back if the school didn't have any involvement from EP.

Hope you get some answers from the GP op.

Have you checked the referral process? In my area parents can self-refer.

Hi OP. I hope you all survived Christmas.

I would try putting some changes in place now routines are established once more.