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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not give our 10 year old his Christmas presents?

323 replies

stardust22 · 22/12/2019 14:27

Our 10 year old is threatening to tell his 6 year old Sister that Father Christmas isn't real.

He is trying to use this information to black mail us. When he is given consequences he will say either cancel my consequences or I'll tell her the truth about Christmas.

We have said we won't put up with his behaviour & if he did tell her he would not receive any Christmas presents.

He is & always has been rude & aggressive. I don't know how much information to give as this has been on going since he was 4 years old.

My husband & I have discussed not giving Christmas presents to him previously but I have always said no way.

This year I am unsure..... I know it would cause massive upset & ruin our Christmas but he acts so entitled & really only cares about himself.
I don't think it will change his behaviour as nothing we have ever done has, we are just at a loss.

OP posts:
CareOfPunts · 24/12/2019 09:33

While he may well have SEN (although school don’t think so), the behaviour problems seem only to be with his parents?

I don’t know whether the OP’s son does have SEN but it’s absolutely not uncommon (a) for children to mask at school and melt down at home or (b) for schools not to have the first fucking clue about SEN. I’ve known many, many people (my family included) having to battle for years to get support because school were not on board. And the kids did turn out to have SEN.

Inwiththenew · 24/12/2019 09:33

Santa is not real, he’s a construct. He is a lie. Honestly, once you embrace this fact it’s like a weight off your shoulders. It doesn’t hurt your kids to know that the presents come from you. Maybe your son is a truth seeker. He may have the personality type that doesn’t respond to threats, as you can see now he is using them on you. Our kids are here to teach us just as much if not more than we teach them. I’d say just enjoy Christmas with your family de stress and then deal with it. I know they push you I’ve got a difficult one as well 😉

winniestone37 · 24/12/2019 09:38

If you’re child is rude and aggressive I’m guessing it’s down to how he is treated, your parenting. Your post seems to totally devoid of responsibility, instead you say he’s always been this way. I’m guessing you favour your daughter enormously and this has contributed to his behaviour too. Not giving him presents is nasty and cruel in an almost Dickensian manner. What he needs is firm parenting, boundaries, positive reinforcement and tons of love. I find your post deeply worrying and if I knew you I would involve social services. He’s 10, a young child the posts above advocating the removal of his presents with no mention of the parents taking a hard look at them selves make me sick to my stomach. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. I hope three spirits visit you tonight.

Glogirl1 · 24/12/2019 09:56

I know his behaviour seems infuriating but your son is probably feeling insecure and jealous of his younger sibling. He may be feeling you love her more as he is picking up on your anger with him. I would just chat to him about his feelings and empathise with them. Try not to get caught in power struggles with him. The Father Christmas issue is a red herring.

Rockhopper81 · 24/12/2019 10:02

Whether or not the OPs family 'do' Father Christmas is not the point here - posters saying 'Father Christmas isn't real' and 'he's just stating the truth' are missing the point.

It's not about whether Father Christmas is real or not (obviously he's not), but about the control her son wants by saying he will tell his sister. It's just got a very clear direction because of the time of year!

Judging people for telling or letting their child believe in Father Christmas isn't at all helpful - he's not saying these things because he wants his sister to know the truth, it's because he wants the control he has by threatening it.

Whatever the reason is that he wants that control, that's why he's saying it - not to be some beacon of truth. If it wasn't Christmas, there would be something else - it's a convenient vehicle, not the reason behind the action.

stardust22 · 24/12/2019 11:02

I'm sorry I can't reply to all of your questions & to each of you individually. Thank you all for your replies, I do appreciate the time you have taken to give advice & try to help.

We will be going back to the GP in the new year.

Some points I will make are Ds's behaviour started before we were even pregnant with his Sister. I have PCOS, she was a surprise baby, so at no point until we told him at around 5-6 months pregnant did he know. He was delighted, doted on her when she was born, sang to her, played with her, enjoyed making her laugh, held hands on walks. When he was at school & she started in the attached preschool, he would run over to talk to her & give her a kiss through the fence at playtimes.
His friends with younger Sisters at the school would not play with or talk to their Sisters. So when he started not wanting to play with her when she was in Reception, I thought it was normal behaviour. Over time he became less tolerant of her & now says he doesn't like her as she annoys him. Some reasons he has given are, he doesn't like her talking to him when he is with his friends, she is a baby when she gets upset, she is stupid as can't do times tables. (This is only a few & I can't remember every issue he has with her.)

We did not once think the withholding was down to bad behaviour. I was just explaining we had seen a child development specialist as we needed help with how to deal with his withholding. (We tried everything suggested by nursery, we used the ERIC website for advice, we used reward charts, stickers, toys, magazines, having conversations, showing him age appropriate funny videos, we bought a body book to read together.) This was over a long period & we gave each method time but nothing helped. I was desperate to help him, he had 3 poo accidents in Reception & he didn't like it, he was embarrassed. I had no problem in asking for help & saying we needed support, I wanted to deal with it in the correct/best way & help him.

I didn't realise from what I'dd said in my previous posts, that it came across as we don't love him or show him love. He is very loved by us all, even his Sister who he is mean to.
Every day he is given kisses & cuddles. When Daddy leaves the house for work kiss & cuddle, followed by special hand shake he made up. When he goes in to school every morning without fail he is given a kiss. He is the only child in his class that still wants a kiss goodbye & isn't embarrassed. (Other parents have commented, their own younger children don't want kisses now whether they aren't bothered or are too embarrassed & it's lovely to see.)
Every school day we talk in the car on the way home. I feel he feels safe & happy to talk to me as he'll happily tell me about things that have happened at school that I know others aren't telling their parents.

With regards to Father Christmas & how he found out he isn't real.
He asked a few times over the past year, I would talk about the magic of Christmas & say some Children don't believe but it's exciting visiting FC & waiting to see what presents he leaves for you. He was happy with this.... I always said I wouldn't lie to him if pressed on it. Back in September he asked me if FC was real. Gave examples of friends finding their Parent's Amazon order history or Excel spreadsheets with presents listed. He said some friends were saying he's not real & he wanted to know so when he is older he can sort Christmas for his children. He asked me to tell him the truth so I did. After the conversation he seemed fine. I asked him if he was okay about it & his eyes filled up. I cuddled him & he did have a little cry. We talked about the magic still being alive & how he can still write his Christmas list, visit FC as we do every year & help make it special for his Sister & Brother. He was excited by this, he asked lots of questions (as he always does about everything) about reindeer food, about who eats the mince pie & carrot we leave out. He found it highly amusing we got our dog to bite & chew the carrot & said how authentic it looked.

Threatening to tell his Sister about FC is purely because he had been given consequences for his behaviour & he wanted me to back down. I give chances/warnings, I sometimes count down from 5 in the hope it'll change his mind & he will do as he is being asked. (This does work sometimes.)
The day after he made his threat he cuddled me & said sorry. Then he asked if he could watch Pokemon on tv. I said no as that was his consequence for his behaviour. He then said, looks like I'll have to tell her then doesn't it.

The consequence was given as he refused to get ready for school. Not getting up, moaning about his "trash" breakfast, leisurely reading at the table whilst eating, snuggling on the sofa to continue reading. Playing on the landing & saying he doesn't care if he's late for school. Then going in to his bedroom to get dressed but playing with Pokemon cards. I walked in & he tried to slam the door on me. I said we are leaving the house in 5 mins get a move on. After lots of warnings I said if he didn't hurry up he would not be watching tv after school. He did not hurry up, we waited for him downstairs, he barged past his Sister with his rucksack on & knocked her over. I said no tv after school. He then got angry & slammed the gate on us as we walked out. I then said if he continued he'd be losing Pokemon/tv the next day as well. He continued at the car, moaning, being rude & he pushed past his Sister to put his bag in the front first. So I said no tv tomorrow either.

We always tell him we are proud, we have lots to be proud of. His amazing piano performances at school, speaking in church at the Christmas service, being an amazing caring & helpful big brother to his brother. We tell him we are proud verbally , I have in the past written him letters & done drawings for him. I leave notes in his writing/doodle books (at home) to say I love him & I'm proud of him.
I don't spend 1 on 1 time with him as much as I should but there is very little time. I know you may say make time but my husband works very long hours 6 days a week. Our 1 day all together is spent as a family. (This hasn't always been the case. We used to have a lot more time)
We have always looked after our children ourselves. When I worked nights or evenings they were with Daddy & when Daddy was at work they were with me. Grandparents have never babysat (apart from when I had our 3rd child for 1 day) we have not gone out on date nights or weekends away like some parents do, it's been over 10 years. We are happy, our time will come when our children have grown. I just want to show we do everything for our children they are our world.

We do need help with our Son's behaviour. I am not afraid or ashamed to ask for help. My main contact has been with the school as the GP was no help. The school set up weekly meetings for him with the school counsellor. When I have spoken to teachers they reassure me I am doing the right thing with consequences & following through. The one gave this own experience with his teenagers, swearing & being disrespectful. (My Son does not swear although does tell me when he hears swear words at school & sometimes asks what they mean.) I don't think it's the same as they are teenagers.
The other teacher told me about her difficult teenager, anorexia & other problems. Again, not the same as what my Son is doing but I was always told to persevere with consequences & following through.

We are strict in comparison to some parents but our Son generally appreciates this. There was massive upset about Momo (the weird looking thing on the internet) at school. He thanked us for not letting him have free reign on the internet/YouTube as he would have hated seeing it. I sat up with him until 11pm talking, cuddling & reassuring him as he had heard lots of stories at school, this was enough to bother him.
Fortnite is a 12, he is 10. I have read & spoken to lots of people that have experienced problems with their wonderful children after playing. (Lots regretting it after.) I know it would not be good for my Son. He tells me how some friends get left out & ganged up on. I don't want him to deal with that, I am just trying to protect him. He doesn't play games online, he plays Minecraft, Pokemon, Farming simulator & various other games he loves.

He is allowed to make mistakes, we tell him that. We do not expect him to be perfect. He insists he doesn't want to be anything like his Dad. (Who is a wonderful man, kind, caring, honest, hard working, always puts our family first.) We don't know why but he says it's hard to be good.

We spend time doing the things he loves, Monopoly, Computer games, (family quiz games, football, car racing) football, tennis, badminton, cycling. When we get time we do what he enjoys.

This is longer than I expected, I know I haven't covered all questions. I just wanted to say we are not horrible people.

The no park with friends after school consequence.... It wasn't just once he behaved like this. It happened every time we went for about 5 weeks. He was spoken to calmly initially whilst I was driving. He once demanded to go to McDonald's for tea whilst kicking the back of my seat. (Not making a big deal of that just saying he would say different things.)
I always spoke to him about his behaviour. He would be sent to his room for 5-10mins when we got home. We would talk before bed about his day & he would just say he didn't want to leave the park. He would apologise once calm. The same would happen when we went again until the final time I pulled over & I said I can't drive with you kicking the back of my seat. He refused to stop, I explained dangerous, could crash the car. He refused to stop, I said we would not go to the park again after school with friends. He continued...

So we didn't go again whilst others carried on, but then things changed. After school clubs started up, the weather became cold & wet, all of which meant it didn't come up again.

The 3DS is a long story but he was allowed on his Kano coding computer on the weekends still. I told him not to even ask about going on the 3DS again. He didn't for ages & it was easy to just carry on without it. He was happy, no problem. Then Christams came & he asked for new 3ds games. We set ground rules, weekends only, come off when asked & he then got the 3Ds back.

We will be speaking to GP in the new year.

OP posts:
pollyanna1962 · 24/12/2019 11:03

If he is fine in school I suggest to you he is masking. If you can afford it go privately and get an autism assessment.

CareOfPunts · 24/12/2019 11:26

Oh get a grip @winniestone37

stardust22 · 24/12/2019 11:29

A few other things I didn't cover. I replied on page 2 of the thread saying we would not use his Christmas presents as a consequence.
I don't think he will actually tell her.

The park situation happened when he was 6/7. The withholding poo was 3yrs 2 months - 5/6yrs.
At 3.5yrs he said about the car & hammer. I was just explaining that is when I remember him starting to get angry. There have been many melt downs over the years. LEGOLAND, lovely 2 day visit stayed in the hotel. It was great until we came to leave, we gave notice, we said we would go & buy a cookie & visit the gift shop on the way out. He wasn't happy & refused to leave so my husband carried him out kicking, screaming, spitting (he'd never done it before) he then refused to talk to us on the 4 hour journey home. We stopped off at a Supermarket on the way home to get food but he refused to get out of the car. We didn't hold it against him or punish him but explained he should not behave that way.
I won't list every problem but he isn't treated badly we just don't know how is best to deal with his behaviour.

All I want is for someone to say do this & it'll all work out.

OP posts:
Roselilly36 · 24/12/2019 11:40

I wouldn’t withhold his Xmas presents, I would explain to him why it would be a sad thing to tell his little sis though.

My DS was very difficult as a toddler, and young child, so I sympathise, it does get easier OP, he is now 16 and absolutely lovely, caring and considerate.

Glogirl1 · 24/12/2019 11:44

May I just add, I’m not implying you are bad parents or that you love your son less. Children often worry that they are less loved anyway and if their behaviour is problematic, parents sometimes get caught in unhelpful cycles where more interactions with the badly behaved child are negative. This may reinforce in child’s mind that they are not the favourite which causes him/her distress which then fuels more acting out behaviour to gain some control. Just a cycle to be aware of and not something to blame yourselves for at all. I hope you all have a peaceful and loving Christmas together.

stardust22 · 24/12/2019 11:57

Glogirl1 - Thank you for explaining your view.

If anything our daughter is over looked as she doesn't get to do half the things our Son does.

He gets to stay up & watch DVD's with us. He has loved watching Harry Potter after reading all of the books. He stays up to play card games with us & board games.

My husband took him out for the day to take photos of our local area for a school homework project. In to town to buy special paper & pens. Did research on the subject matter, it was a great day. Our Son wasn't interested when it came to putting it all together. He never handed the homework in as he couldn't be bothered to write out the info.

Our daughter gets consequences for her behaviour but she is a completely different child. Yes she gets upset, screams & shouts but she would never hit us. She accepts consequences if she misbehaves & learns from it.
She is very caring towards her older brother & plays for ages the games he wants. Right now she is sat with him whilst he plays with his Cosmo. All she gets to do is what her Brother tells her to do, mainly sit & watch.

OP posts:
totallyradllama · 24/12/2019 12:07

This is a power struggle. And it is true that he currently has something very powerful (the Santa secret) that trumps what you can counter with.

Your choices to defuse it are either a) accept him telling her or b) persuade him to put the powerful thing down by appealing to the part of him that loves his sister really. Ask him not to punish her because he is angry with you. Think you need to talk to him more about his feelings. Re calling his bluff there must be loads of kids whose older siblings tell them...

totallyradllama · 24/12/2019 12:08

Also remind him of the permanence of it, once he has told her it can't be undone no matter how sorry he is

totallyradllama · 24/12/2019 12:12

Sorry to drip feed. The book "volcano in my tummy" might be useful

stardust22 · 24/12/2019 12:21

totallyradllama - It really isn't an issue now. He has had his consequences & he hasn't mentioned telling her again.

Rockhopper81 has it spot on.

We visited FC on Saturday morning. He received his special letter from FC with his Good behaviour certificate this morning.

He will be getting his Nintendo Switch & games for Christmas.

OP posts:
stardust22 · 24/12/2019 12:22

Thank you for the book recommendations everyone.

OP posts:
53rdWay · 24/12/2019 12:35

My sister was like this. Rage and threats and screaming. My parents got stuck in an arms race of threats and punishments with her, where they got stricter and stricter and she got angrier and angrier and they’d think the best response was harsher punishments and she got angrier still. Her - and our - teenage years were awful screamy hell.

It’s easy to be wise in hindsight, but what I wish they’d done at the time was tried harder to take a step back from their own responses and try some different things. The only tool they had for poor behaviour was punishment and while it worked for their other children it just did not work for that one. They did seek out help and get referred to an educational psychologist on the end, but very much with the approach of “how do we fix our bad child?” and not “how do we get out of this bad pattern?”, and this was the 80s and so the psychologist didn’t give them any alternatives really.

I would continue pushing with the school, the GP, charities, whatever, to get some professional help. He may or may not need a professional diagnosis but you as parents really need support in finding a different way to navigate parenting him. Don’t be tempted by the suggestions here to get even stricter with him to “sort him out” - if that was going to work it would have worked already.

(The good news is that my sister’s now a kind, calm and responsible adult and has been since she was about 18. In the end she just grew out of it.)

Scarlettpixie · 24/12/2019 12:44

Maybe the fact that you are always threatening him with stuff means he thinks this is how to get what you want.

Don’t use birthdays or Christmas as a bargaining tool find other ways to parent him.

Iggly · 24/12/2019 12:46

The tantrums etc sound a bit like my DS but I recognise that getting super strict with him just does not work. It really doesn’t.

As it is we've flagged for SEND with school because a multitude of behaviours make me wonder. However I still adjust my parenting accordingly because, after all, a diagnosis doesn’t change the fact I have to parent him appropriately.

He sounds a little like my DS at his worst (even down to not wanting to write up homework but, after some probing, it’s because he finds writing difficult). DS masks a lot at school I think and we see the worst.

Giving my DS more responsibility helps massively. Not “treats” but actually treating him that we think he is capable of things. Eg letting him help with cooking, if he offers to do something, I let him try (Eg lighting the wood stove, carrying shopping, using DIY tools). Going to the shop solo. Little freedoms here and there.

It’s all part of a bigger approach. Treat him with respect, give him responsibility and show you trust him. If he makes mistakes help him learn from them - because 9/10 they are genuine mistakes and ultimately he does want to make his parents proud.

Iggly · 24/12/2019 12:48

I would also suggest you try reading books about Growth Mindset. This is about praising effort, not achievement.

53rdWay · 24/12/2019 12:51

(Oh and I should add, my sister’s behaviour wasn’t just a teenage thing, it was a problem from age 2/3. By your DS’s age she was facing expulsion from primary school. School’s advice was always “more punishments, get tough, follow through with what you threaten” and it was no use at all.)

Lweji · 24/12/2019 12:52

My husband took him out for the day to take photos of our local area for a school homework project. In to town to buy special paper & pens. Did research on the subject matter, it was a great day. Our Son wasn't interested when it came to putting it all together. He never handed the homework in as he couldn't be bothered to write out the info.

Did your husband take over the project?

stardust22 · 24/12/2019 13:06

He does have some responsibility, he does get to help with cooking, carrying the shopping basket, scanning & packing. He is a great help when we pop in to the supermarket & it's just me with the 3 children. I thank him for his help & tell him how much easier he has made it.

He gets to use tools & helps where possible. Loves to wash the car & windows with the power washer.

We are very rural here & have no shops near by for him to go to. But at the Supermarket I have sent him off to get something we may have forgotten. He has also stayed at home alone for 20 mins whilst I had to go & pick my husband up as the car broke down.

OP posts:
Alpal1 · 24/12/2019 13:07

You can not give in to his threats even if his little sis finds out about Santa. But please don’t cancel Christmas, that’s way too extreme.

Assuming the problem is at home and not due to special needs, he may just need a bit more of your time and affection to cure this behaviour. I am a huge fan of “special time” for those children who act up. Try putting aside15 mins a day for just you and him. The only rule is that you never cancel it as a punishment, ignore interruptions where ever possible, and let him choose the activity within reason. Use the time to praise him about small specific things. e.g. I love the way you did the ...... When we use it in school, sometimes the difference is noticeable within just a week and so far, it has never failed to produce an improvement, sometimes quite astonishing.