To not give our 10 year old his Christmas presents?

[stardust22]

Our 10 year old is threatening to tell his 6 year old Sister that Father Christmas isn't real.

He is trying to use this information to black mail us. When he is given consequences he will say either cancel my consequences or I'll tell her the truth about Christmas.

We have said we won't put up with his behaviour & if he did tell her he would not receive any Christmas presents.

He is & always has been rude & aggressive. I don't know how much information to give as this has been on going since he was 4 years old.

My husband & I have discussed not giving Christmas presents to him previously but I have always said no way.

This year I am unsure..... I know it would cause massive upset & ruin our Christmas but he acts so entitled & really only cares about himself.
I don't think it will change his behaviour as nothing we have ever done has, we are just at a loss.

Really? Because I have diverse experience of autistic profiles across 3 children in my family (they couldn’t me more different from one another and yet definitely autistic) and one of them definitely WOULD do stuff like this.

Also @stardust22 take the power out of him revealing all to his sister by planning a way to keep the belief real for her (you’ll need to come up with some explanation about believers and non-believers or somesuch) but give him back some power by talking to him and making something that is wrong for him right. Make some mince pies with him and figure out what’s grinding his gears.

What a lot of rot.... you are being held to ransom by a 10 year old about something which is lies and you contemplate withholding a gift?

Sorry no advice as I am in the same boat with my 10 year old
I know there is additional needs with him but cause the school don’t see any of it we can’t get no help or a referral!!!
You are not alone in this!
Please try and keep your head up and try and keep positive i know how hard that is
Much love 💕 Xx

Have you posted about your ds before? Are you the poster who's child was violent and aggressive to his siblings, and wouldn't let ds watch tv in peace?
The behaviour sounds similar, I'm sorry you are still going through this, I think some family counselling is probably the way to go, do not get robbed off by your GP

Please get professional help for him. At this age he shouldn’t be doing this, he should have more respect for you.

My son was put in assisted living at 16 because he had been mentally, emotionally and financially abusing me for years and I thought I could deal with it. I couldn’t. It got to the point where he said he would smash his room if I didn’t give him the £70 he wanted because “buying me a new bed would cost more than £70”

He did smash his room, he threatened to do the house, he trashed the living room and the spare room then went on to stab a juice box in front of my eyes and threaten to knife me and the commit suicide, all because I started saying no.

Please don’t let your son get to this point.

(My son has been away from us for 12 month now. Things are improving but he’ll never be able to live with us again)

Action and concequences. Boundaries are written in steel not sand. If you have been threatening him but not following up on the consequences, his behaviour will only get worse. You're allowing a child to rule you're home, be the adults.

It sounds like you're having a really challenging time OP - sorry to hear that.

I don't really think this is about Father Christmas and whether or not he tells his younger sister - it's about control. It seems like he craves it, however he can get it - be that withholding bowel movements, or blackmailing you to have control.

He is clearly an intelligent boy - he knows how to manipulate language and situations to get the result (and thus, control) he wants. This makes him seem manipulating in himself, but it may not be the case - it could be about calming his own anxiety by having this control.

It's entirely possible that he doesn't 'present' with difficulties at school - a lot of children with a variety of needs 'hold it together' at school and then fall apart at home. Because they can! It's safe there to 'let go'.

Echoing other posters, there are definite traits of Oppositional Defiance Disorder in what you say. I am in no way qualified to diagnose anything, but this would be my starting point. PDA profile of ASD would present as not being able to meet a demand (as a rule) - "can't help won't" as I've read it put - whereas ODD is refusal to meet demands because of the control that is needed (as a rule).

Definitely persevere with your GP: someone very accurately said that you need to be a squeaky wheel, so make a nuisance of yourself as needed. Speak to the SENCo at school (if you haven't already) and explain exactly what is happening at home - be through and specific.

In the mean time, maybe look up some strategies for ODD online and try implementing a couple. It might be a start.

My biggest suggestion would be to use choice (as mentioned previously) rather than dictating language - it can be difficult to change the ingrained language we use, so it needs thinking carefully about. So, instead of 'you need to tidy your bedroom and put your clothes away NOW', it could be 'are you going to put your clothes away now or after lunch?' It will give some control back to him.

If you've read all of this - thank you and well done! Hope things start getting easier soon - keep pestering your GP!

Please don’t take his presents away. That’s only going to lead to more problems and resentment. I know you should always follow through with consequences but I also think it’s ok to admit that the consequences aren’t the right ones.

I'm sorry OP, you sound like you are at your wits end, and no wonder. Your son is behaving like a right little shit! He may have underlying mental health issues going on, that are not necessarily anybody's fault. I would ask your GP to refer him to CAHM's and maybe even get social work involved? I know some families who were struggling with very difficult children, and SW were a godsend. People assume they will just take kids into care but they are there for help and support. I think you are doing all the right things for what its worth but you need more help and support. 💐

@Rockhopper81 absolutely this.

I also recommend a book called ‘The Explosive Child’ by Ross W Greene PhD

You need to contact CAMHS (ideally ASAP) regarding his behaviour - he sounds very intelligent but deeply manipulative and there are many ways that could go if you can’t get a grip on him now

I’m so sorry OP, you must be so stressed - In your shoes I would likely withhold some of his presents, if only to demonstrate that you will not tolerate threats/blackmail and tell him that once he can engage in family life and show you and your husband some respect (that isn’t forced) he can have the nice things/the trips out etc but only when he engages with the family in a civil manner xX

Get a handle on him. Its not hard. Raise your voice be the boss. Hes 10.

The fuck would I be blackmailed by a 10 year old. I would definitely follow through on this. Sorry to say this but he sounds pretty horrible, it must be tough on you x

The traits you have described fits my son who has ASD - I'm not saying you DS has ASD but just mentioning it, so that it's not just discarded as a possibility. The issue is that with ASD most ppl have a perception of children with ASD acting a particular way. Some like my son have severe anxiety and in order to be in control of their anxiety or manage it, they try and dictate things, resort to violence out of frustration/lack of emotional maturity, and at times appear "manipulative".

Try reading about PDA as well. Again not saying that your Son has ASD or PDA but worth looking at it.

Lots of misperception here about what ASD should be or how kids with ASD bahave. It's a spectrum. They are all different. Mine is very similar to what OP had described.

It's so hard - those giving you a hard time do not understand.

Good luck x

*Sorry, I've just gone back and read more of the thread - it sounds like oppositional defiant disorder.

www.webmd.com/mental-health/oppositional-defiant-disorder*

I thought this too, but does that fit with him being ok in school?

As well as counselling for your son please do also look into parenting classes. There's no shame in asking for help.

If your son doesn't have a diagnosed mental health issue, then I 'm afraid you have a parental control problem of your own making and need professional help.

It sounds to me like your son could have pathelogical demand avoidance, which is a sub-type of autism or like a pp said ODD. Your doctor does not need school to refer you to the paediatrician, the doctor or school nurse are capable of doing that no matter what his behaviour is like at school. He is most likely masking at school and in front of his friends and just letting you have it in private because you are his safe space. If you have facebook there is a brilliant group on there called PARENT AND CARER SUPPORT GROUP. I would definitely recommend going on there for further advice and support as I can see you definitely could do with it x

OP This sounds like such a tight situation. I am sorry to read about it.
As well as following some great advice from previous postes, I recommend servies and podcasts by Janet Landsbury. He approach has helped me manage conflict with my children better I am now more respectful but also express and enforce boundaries more clearly. This has really improved life at home. It might also work for you. Good luck!

I would say tell her and there will be consequences, you could even give her the heads up that if her brothers says anything about Santa then he is being mean and its not true so ignore want he says.

I’d read up a little on PDA, I don’t think it’s that as such because he would be pretty consistent across school & home in terms of his reaction to having demands put on him/being in control. Although with ASD, there can be difference at home & school. I’m not really seeing traits apart from the control & having to be right but I think just reading up on the approaches to dealing with PDA could really help. My son has both, pretty severe, plus ADHD & anxiety, he’s in a special school. I wouldn’t continue the I’ll do this if you do that approach as where does it end? As soon as they know there’s nothing you can really do it just gets worse to the point of having a really out of control teenager, as my sister knows...

@stardust22
You say this has been going.on the last six years.... So did this start when he found out he wasn't going to be an only child?

Did.you let him get away with lots n make empty threats before he turned out.like this?... I know.lots of.oarents for an instant easy life make threat after threat of consequences, that they never carry out, so the child learns that no matter what they do, they won't get properly punished.

I may be old fashioned but I still believe in a SLAP, not spanking but a lil slap when really really young, and not to make empty threats. If you say no Xbox when we get home.... Then no Xbox when you get home.... Stick to what you say.

I've never been a fan of the "naughty step", ... Behave or you'll get solitary for minutes, etc. I've known kids who'll consider that an ok punishment for whatever they do, so don't anyways.

Even when I babysat my nephews, I followed through whatever I said I'd do... 2 chances, and third time, I'd scoop them up and off to bed. If it continued after that (they had separate bedrooms) then I'd unscrew the plug to their TV, so they couldn't watch it... It rarely got to that point, cos they knew I'd do it.

Not sure what you've done to control this child ... Have you taken him to child physcologists? Have you tried sticking to your guns after threatening something,

At ten he knows better, and should do, so unless there's underlying mental health issues, then it's just control, and to win that control, you HAVE to stop bargaining with him... You're a bloody adult pleading with a CHILD. FFS

STOP IT
You n your husband, must stop with empty threats.

As for Christmas, get your daughter, sit her down, and explain how Santa works... That you give him a list and the money, but he delivers everything, like a special Amazon! That sometimes when kids have been naughty a lot, like your brother, you have to go get the gifts, which is why he doesn't believe.

Now your brother wants to tell you Santa isn't real, he is real, but your brother doesn't get to see him cos he's always naughty.

Do not cancel his Christmas and turn Christmas into a hell hole for the whole family, as you'll regret it.

Maybe tell him he'll be getting Christmas presents as you don't want to ruin the day for his sibling(s), but as he's decided to blackmail you he now has until his birthday to EARN his presents, and if he doesn't change his ways you'll quite happily let him ruin that day.

@santasgotaredsack are you a troll? Skipping over the smacking comment... how on earth is telling the daughter her brother is naughty going to help and not drive a massive great wedge between the siblings with naughty brother having ruined Xmas and turning him into the resented and hated member of the family? Jeez.