To think that there are too many personal insults and attacks on Tory voters

[Soimblue]

I’m really sick of it now. I don’t log on here to be called a cunt, told I hate disabled people and want to ruin the NHS.

I’m interested as to whether others feel the same or if it is just me. If it’s just me, I think I’ll piss off.

Running

Should you go to jail for something somebody else does? I bet you'd kick up a fuss.
Or should we just change the law to take your home, livelihood and take your children into care.
You are disgusting.

MissConduct

Trespass isn't illegal yet in the UK.
Do you have a suggestion where this race should go then?
We can't all just vanish into thin air.
In case you aren't aware, we have about a quarter of the sites needed for travellers, the government won't provide any more.
There isn't enough social housing for the thousands of travellers we have, so they will be on the streets.

@RufusthebewiIderedreindeer

Good point. Lots of people are still racist in Britain, and at the time of reforms in the 1960s for immigration, legalisation of abortion, decriminalisation of homosexuality, removal of capital punishment then all of this was opposed by Conservatives. This is after all a party that had at least one MP who was happy to campaign saying if you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote Labour.

The idea that Conservatives have any progressive ideas is a myth. They are very poor at recognising they changes in society around them. Or if they do, they largely see such changes as a matter of moral failure.

I'm so sick and tired of conservatives playing the fucking martyr because no one likes the fact that conservative party won no I'm not going to celebrate maybe you should lower your expectations stop wanting people to be happy for you personally I'm getting on with my life and not expecting to be disturbed by anyone until the next time

In case you aren't aware, we have about a quarter of the sites needed for travellers, the government won't provide any more.
There isn't enough social housing for the thousands of travellers we have, so they will be on the streets.

People are staggeringly unaware of this in my experience. "Oh they can just go somewhere else. Where else? Oh I don't know, I'm sure there's loads of places."

I voted labour, but I was disgusted at one of my best friends ( who also voted labour ) with the posts she put up on Facebook calling all Tory voters idiots. There's just no need for it. Anyone who feels they need to justify themselves by throwing abuse at others are not the kind of fellow labour supporters that I want to be associated with. In my experience , no one ever got someone on their side by calling them the names that I have seen thrown around. If anything I'm pretty sure one of my other friends voted Tory because she didn't like the labour attitude that was being portrayed no matter how I tried to assure her it was only a handful of people who had that awful attitude :-(

Drabani I don’t know if you already know this

I’m a Brexiteer and I voted Tory

I have asked questions on your threads to find out more information about travellers, and provided info I thought you might find useful in relation to the election

I believe this sort of polite communication to be crucial to trying to understand each other

I don’t believe that the government should provide sites for travellers at the moment. Perhaps it was possible when population was lower, but not now.

So I feel it only decent to point out that you are thanking me, but you might have a different idea in your head about my views. I think I’ve seen you being very critical of Tories in the past. I apologise if I’m mixing you up with anyone else, or if I have misunderstood you in some way.

Graph - I’m similar age and I disagree about degrees not being easy to get. I got one straight out of school that I barely turned up to class for and reused high school essays several times through all years. I got a second distance learning to use my brain around caring for kids with disabilities, to not loose myself (as I also have disabilities) and again it was a piece of piss, despite the significant impact my disabilities have on academic learning. It’s not a sensible generalisation and will vary massively depending on what degrees from where etc. One thing that I personally feel is lacking from all levels of education is critical thinking, which imho is far more important than education of any sort.

Do you have a suggestion where this race should go then?
We can't all just vanish into thin air.

I would suggest that you lease land to camp on. Building a lifestyle on abusing the property rights of others is not a good long term solution.

How would a traveler feel if a complete stranger moved into their vehicle for a few months?

The Conservative ethos does not support intervention by the State, progressive change brought about by government interference is anathema to them. You are right, @LexMitior, deleterious social change is seen as moral failure. Clue's in the name. Don't look to them for help.

Oh, I don’t doubt plenty of degrees are much harder to get, especially t those like nursing. And I’m well aware that the baby boomers could get a basic pass degree and walk out into high paid jobs where as now we need a 1st plus post grad plus work experience to get the same stuff level of secured income- but I don’t think that’s indicative that degrees themselves are universally harder to get.

What I did find much more challenging was the on the job qualifications I did after uni prior to having children. Slightly less than degree level and certainly worthy to the job I was doing, but much more academically challenging than the degrees I chose.

So I just think it varies massively, as these things do.

Miss - council land isn’t the same as privately owned gardens.

Certainly it should be respected and cared for. But why wouldn’t council/country have a responsibility to provide land for people who live there? It’s that or provide homes that we don’t have and cost way more. There’s also land not being used for anything else like green belt land that certainly used to come with incentives for farmers to set aside, I don’t see how incentives for land travellers can use can be handled similar ways.

Presumably part of LEA legal responsibility to provide education for all kids would go hand in hand with kids having a settled place to enable them to access education, at least for chunks of time. Councils should have a responsibility to provide sites that can enable access to education the same way they have an obligation to provide my children with transport due to their disability needs (not that my children use this as their disabilities are too severe and require me and dh take them).

Why do those saying you voted for an openly racist prime minister so what do you expect assume that this is somehow worse than those who voted for an openly anti-semetic one?

Or how about the fact that every party is erasing women’s rights - so everyone voted for misogynistic leaders?

Or maybe adults should be able to recognise that there is piss poor choices and blame that on the inadequacy of the parties and their failure to represent the needs and wants of the electorate. The more we hurl insults at each side the more we aren’t looking at the politicians and holding them accountable.

I really don't understand why some people seem to think that people in the 60’s were all peace and love and NOT racist

Oh that may be my fault. I was responding to the assumption that 70 somethings are by definition racist, *ist etc. At least some of them must have voted for Roy Jenkins' socially liberalisation agenda on divorce, race and immigration, abortion, gay rights etc.

As a 50something I remember growing up hearing plenty of racist comments but there were also people opposing them. The idea that people below 70 are automatically less racist is laughable. I see as much racism younger than me as older than me - age is a very bad indicator of racist attitudes.

AutumnRose

Many thanks for that, but you have shown an interest, not tarred us all with the same brush.
That's all that anyone can ask I don't mind how you voted, it would be very boring if we all shared the same political views.
Believe it or not I have a family member who voted Conservative, I don't hate, but wish for better understanding.

Sadly many of the travelling community do themselves no favours. If they left sites clean and repaired tyre ruts and other damage I suspect there would be more sympathy for their lifestyles. Better yet, agreeing access and paying people for using their land. I hope that any travellers reading can understand that having your land wrecked by trespassers and being left with the bill is quite rightly going to leave people angry, frustrated and without much sympathy.

That said, allowing the police an easier route to go in and crack heads isn't an alternative solution to the hard yards of engaging the travelling community and establishing a mutually agreeable way forward.

There is a balance between providing a robust and well resources social benefits system and subsidising chancers. Neither Johnson nor Corbyn had it right in my opinion.

MissConduct

We aren't allowed to do that, and if we buy land to build houses, not just to place mobile homes we face discrimination and opposition from local people.
There really is nowhere to go unless you own a home.

C8H

The council should provide sites, if they don't people will trespass, as they can't just vanish into thin air.
Travellers have lived here for centuries, my own ancestors arrived from East Europe into Wales in the 1600's and have faced persecution wherever they went. The worst cleansing in this country in Kent 1968.
We have human right to live as we do, following our own culture the same as any other race.

@longwayoff

This is why conservatives are considered selfish. It is very narrow minded to expect everyone in society to conform to their values. It shows something stunted and somewhat self serving. I like a Conservative who is honest that they are not bothered, that they dislike single mothers or other burdens on the State. It is far less annoying than having to listen to their claims of doing what is best for society. It is what is best for them! Acknowledge it and move on. Compassionate conservatism is claimed by every Tory PM I have ever seen. It is pure lip service as it never happens.

One should look at the results of their policies and judge them that way. Fine words mean nothing.

Tory voters deserve it, for supporting a party that has sided with the far right. It has caused a massive amount of hate and division in this country - between races, religions, against disabled people, the poor, the homeless. All while taking the cream for themselves. They are in effect a far right party now.

People like you are or too stupid to see it. Or you're one of the rich ones.

Drabarni

I think if you offer someone good money for their land they'll sell it to you and then you can do as you like with it. If you establish residence in a community I don't know why you'd face any more discrimination than any other ethnic or national minority.

You never answered my question of how a traveler would like it if a stranger moved into their vehicle for a few months.

I think some conservatives don't give a flying monkey about other people and are just self serving. This isn't everyone who voted for them.
My family member sympathises with the traveller plight and has been an activist through many governments.
However, he works in Finance and informs me he voted due to business interests.
That's fine, and doesn't mean he thinks the NHS and education should go to the dogs. He has a child that will attend state school, too.

There are others who claim to be sympathetic but as suggested are rich enough to afford private education, private healthcare and don't see how the other half live.

@GailCindy My husbaand is 70 in less than three months Hes never voted Tory in his life. But he certainly deserves a say as do other pensioners who will end up on the wrong end of a sanction due to having a younger spouse/partner.

I think if you offer someone good money for their land they'll sell it to you and then you can do as you like with it.

You know that's not how planning permission works, right?

I have had awful abuse from Tory voters! I've never once gone to the insults, one of my main points was that I was concerned we have another five years of a government who have caused the deaths of many for "austerity" the response I got was "nobody died u think labour cunt so fuck off wiv your brainwashed propaganda" which was nice. Also the cuts to nursing bursary and lack of nursing staff is also propaganda and apparently we are all brain washed and the nhs is just tickedy boo right now. 😳