To think that there are too many personal insults and attacks on Tory voters

[Soimblue]

I’m really sick of it now. I don’t log on here to be called a cunt, told I hate disabled people and want to ruin the NHS.

I’m interested as to whether others feel the same or if it is just me. If it’s just me, I think I’ll piss off.

Ignore them op they are ignorant keyboard warriors I say this as a labour voter. This is one of the reasons labour lost but they are too dense and stupid to take that fact on board. Unable to grasp an iota of reasoning or intelligence they resort to petty threats and swearing .

Well done YOU are the reason labour lost

VMisaMarshmallow it’s a complicated picture and depends on local demographics and Leave/Remain. In many tory remain seats the conservatives lost considerable vote share to Lib Dem (eg Wokingham). However, Labour lost more voters to conservatives in Leave areas than tories did in Remain areas. Some ‘marginal’ tory seats in the midlands became tory safe seats whereas safe tory seats in the SE became marginals.

Best reply to your OP was the one which said 'own your selfishness'

In complete and utter agreement. Completely unnecessary to name call but seems to be the level of labour supporting Remain voters. Despite the fact labour weren't a Remain party

Actually midnight there basically is an infinite amount of money, on a national scale at least within a developed country. Macro economics is not the same as microeconomics and there is more than enough money within the UK to fund decent schooling and healthcare and housing for all. It’s not even about tax increases for the over 80k group, increases in tax for the over 1million group brings in plenty, as would the most effect way of redistributing wealth which is taxing big businesses, those based here and those that import in here like amazon for example (and for anything flown in here this also becomes an environmentally responsible tax). There’s also a fuck truck of money spent on things it shouldn’t be, which could again be taken back and put into public spending (but then that varies on ethical views also, I’d gladly only fund armed troops for defence and get rid of what we spend on arms and nuclear weapons, but plenty are pro keeping atomic bombs incase another country sets theirs off .....). I very much doubt labour have a sensible economic plan to address these things though. But even without looking at these obvious things there’s still plenty, the reality is debt countries are in is very different from debt people have, and even the IMF (super right wing, all about making their profits) advise increases in public spending by at least 2% to boost the economy and therefore job opportunities, wages, business profits, and therefore how much tax we gain. The last thing that’s needed is austerity, especially during any recession. There is always, always enough money within any developed country for the needs of all.

That said, while I think that’s a basic fact many seem to not grasp, I do think labour should pay attention to the electorate. I’m Scottish and would be very left leaning by choice, but I live in England and it’s very different country from Scotland. Without the Scots votes, that are significantly more working class and left leaning, England has a much more centrist electorate. If labour wants to appeal to them they should listen and adjust their policies. (They also really need to realise that 51% of the electorate are female and that erasing women’s rights in their manifesto is a stupid way to chuck away votes). It really wouldn’t take much while tories are further to the right than previous for Labour to shift nearer centre and grab back lots of support but they simply don’t listen and go with the banging people over the head with insults route which doesn’t help anyone.

Oh also, I think labour need to realise that many of their socialist principles were formed because of the effect of world wars when we were a very different country from now. Unless something awful unthinkable happens the England will not be heading back there so the reality is the electorate won’t want that labour any more

VMisaMarshmallow I'm in no way an economist so I'll concede to your knowledge there but I'm certain that Labour weren't going to get it right. I most certainly don't disagree much money is wasted, and could be better spent elsewhere. I'd much prefer education, healthcare etc to be more sensibly funded and see austerity end. Fact is, for me personally, Labour's whole manifesto just was wrong to me (there was a lot on it). That's all. Hence voting for the Tories. Not because I'm an uncaring person who wants people to die, contrary to some opinions

And I totally agree, a more centrist party would be a hell of a lot better idea. I would love a properly centrist party, but a centrist party that leant left a bit appeals a bit more than one that leans right.

Well someone just posted saying they are pleased about the changes around refugee children and also workers rights protections so clearly some people who voted Tory do love all that sort of stuff.

@flopsytheflatcat

Best reply to your OP was the one which said 'own your selfishness'

No. It really wasn't.

Unless you're a teenager who watches too much American crap TV, no one in the real world says things like 'own your...'

I believe in equality of opportunity, That makes me right of centre. Left of centre believe in equality of outcome irrespective of effort made. I cannot support that and I do not believe that any economy can support that level of societal support without hugely increasing tax burdens on many of us who earn above average but are hardly millionaires.
I did not vote Tory this election because I cannot support Brexit, but I would never ever have voted Labour.

What does make me smirk on these types of threads is that the OP complains that people are mean and insulting to tories

Then loads of people start being mean and insulting to ‘lefties’

Kinda proves the ‘everyone does it’ theory

I think either Tory voters are super rich and don’t give a monkeys about the poor or they are ignorant of politics, law and economics. I have many friends in each camp and I don’t say this to their faces as I value their friendship but on an Internet forum there isn’t such a personal constraint. Having said that it is highly unfortunate that Corborn made the Labour Party almost unelectable.

Given that voting Tory was tantamount to a pro Brexit vote I consider it pretty unforgivable. The saddest part is some people still consider them to be the party of the working man.

Tbf labour could have a terrible economic plan behind how to fund their manifesto and it still wouldn’t do us any harm, it takes time to put change in place and parties have economists who tell them what’s going on as they do it. I think often people think labour spending was to blame for the recession when (not including the world wide part) it was mostly because thatcher selling off council housing cheap enabled people to sell it for massively increased prices which artfucally inflated the market and meant banks were giving out 100% interest only mortgages that were effecting shooting people in the feet. The impact of that took until labour were in power to hit but it would have hit had tories been in also. I don’t think people realise that as a country we are always billions in debt as standard, that it doesn’t mean what personal debt does and that the responsible advise is for countries to borrow more at that point to boost economies. Most seem to assume it was an irresponsible descion from Blair to do so and that a further left labour would do worse. The reality is when DC lead the coalition the IMF was pushing him to increase public spending to at least 2% to boost the economy (so the IMF can get their profits back, banks like to make money and don’t suggest things that don’t make them money) but DC chose austerity and effectively knowingly sacrificed disabled people, women, children and the elderly. He gets away with msm (owned by rich men who fund tories) blaming this on labours fiscal irresponsibility and it’s lead tories easily holding into power while labour scramble around hurling insults rather than putting out a sensible campaign to educate voters about macroeconomics and bias in msm while listening to what people want. Which sucks big time when it comes to reasonable choice for the electorate. I don’t think most Tory voters want people killed off, and mostly I think it’s labours fault for not providing a suitable alternative, but the fact no one gets what is less than standard grade level economics isn’t helpful either.

If the recession hit when tories were still in power people would have blamed them not labour. As it is when Brexit blows up in tories face they will be blamed and labour will likely be back in (mostly likely with a centrist coalition also) after that and Boris will forever be known as the baffoon who blew up Brexit the same way Blair is the slime bag who had his head up Bushes butt for the Iraq war. Either way women’s rights are screwed no matter which party we have in.

plato I don’t agree with much you said, however don’t you think there is a difference between what you are saying where at worse you are saying that tories are ignorant and people calling 3 million voters ignorant, murdering cunts.
You are entitled to your opinion as it’s not just hurled insults and you are also saying you mix with conservatives and don’t get into nasty political discussion.
There are people all over this forum discussing divorcing husbands because they voted tory and refusing to speak to former friends. It’s just ridiculous.

As it is when Brexit blows up in tories face they will be blamed

I really want brexit to go well...of course i do!

BUT

If it is a fuck up...then im glad the political party who started it get the blame for any issues

They won’t though...i have no idea how yet, but somehow it will be someone elses fault

I don't think insults are the best way to go but I know several people who were personally devastated by the result, including one mum with a life threatening ill child who has experienced huge waits in the nhs which very genuinely puts her child's life at risk. Others are disabled and have been through the fear of a full benefits stop because they have erroneously been declared fit for work and had to rely on relatives/foodbanks/desperation until mandatory appeal. It's far easier to get angry to the point of insults if you believe someone's choice put someone you love at risk.

Quick question to those who do think it’s acceptable to insult people because they voted tory and you feel they are contributing to poverty etc. Do you do it in real life? For example would you go up to my 82 year old father who spent 2 weeks collecting for the Poppy Day appeal and call him a ‘selfish murdering cunt’ if he mentioned he had been delivering leaflets for the conservatives? Or do you just reserve it for when you are behind the safety of your keyboard?

Tbf labour could have a terrible economic plan behind how to fund their manifesto and it still wouldn’t do us any harm, it takes time to put change in place and parties have economists who tell them what’s going on as they do it.

I think this is wishful thinking. Once a benefit has become an entitlement by law the only thing that will change it is a change in the law. Economists have been saying for decades that the French pension system is madness and affordable in addition to being overly generous to some and unfair to others. No one pays any attention to economists. Trying to change it is political suicide, as several French politicians have learned and Macron is learning now.

Governments can only get funding in three ways - taxes, borrowing and printing money faster then the economy is growing. There are painful consequences from the excessive use of any of them.

plato I don’t agree with much you said, however don’t you think there is a difference between what you are saying where at worse you are saying that tories are ignorant and people calling 3 million voters ignorant, murdering cunts.
You are entitled to your opinion as it’s not just hurled insults and you are also saying you mix with conservatives and don’t get into nasty political discussion.
There are people all over this forum discussing divorcing husbands because they voted tory and refusing to speak to former friends. It’s just ridiculous.

I wouldn’t say they were at worse ignorant, some yes, plenty aren’t ignorant and understand exactly what is going on but they have sufficient wealth that they just don’t care and wouldn’t vote to pay significantly more. I know several families who indicated their intention to relocate from the UK should labour get in. That raised an eyebrow certainly, but indeed as you mentioned, falling out with family and friends over politics is ridiculous.

To be honest, I find it less frustrating that wealthy people don’t want to vote labour than the fact many people on median and low incomes vote Tory. I honestly believe that many people don’t understand what they are voting for and if people did, their views would be different. We live in a democracy where everyone is entitled to vote in their own interest although I am firmly of the opinion that many people don’t quite get what that really is.

The reality is that it is just so complex and the Brexit issue muddies the waters. Most people I know who voted conservative are firm remainers. If labour had gone slightly left of centre, they would have won. I don’t think many voters are seriously to blame.

Are you actually expecting someone to answer that smiley

@Smileyaxolotl1 noone will answer you because they know damn well they won't say jack.
I know a lot of people who rant on facebook yet lick the ass of their Tory boss or Tory colleagues.
A lot of this is keyboard courage and virtue signalling. It rarely plays out in practical life. Eg, how many people actually volunteer for the causes they slag others off for? In my experience- very very few.

Kalinkafoxtrot do you live in the UK?

I thought I knew you from a previous life (board,) but maybe not because that person lived elsewhere.

And I thought, wouldn’t have been so narrow minded about politics. I have a few chronic health issues but was much more concerned that Labour would turn life to shit than the Tories.

I don’t feel it’s acceptable to call people names or insult them. But I will remind my husband each and every time he complains in the next five years that he voted for the dreadful mess we’re going to find ourselves in and the direction of travel we’re taking.

Stand strong OP. There's a reason Labour lost. Hateful speech and personal criticisms have become a feature of Labour voters. One of many reasons why they lost. Let it roll over you and be glad that such a hateful bunch of people weren't the majority 😊