To agree with JK Rowling?

[StraightenUpAndFryRight]

mobile.twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1207646162813100033

‘Dress however you please.
Call yourself whatever you like.
Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you.
Live your best life in peace and security.
But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real?
#IStandWithMaya #ThisIsNotADrill’

[JanesKettle]

You're the only one using abusive language, foihnula.

J.K.R certainly didn't.

But hey, if you like being on the side of authoritarian book burners, and enjoy the New Inquisition, I won't stop you.

[53rdWay]

it's a shame it's such a den of disgusting transphobes who can't be arsed to educate themselves

Okay then, educate me about how JKR's tweet is so awful. Genuinely I want to know. Because I genuinely cannot see how you can get to "she hates/wishes harm to trans people" from that.

[IHateBlueLights]

I love MN but it's a shame it's such a den of disgusting transphobes who can't be arsed to educate themselves

I'm obviously far better educated than you, dear. I know what a biological woman is and what a biological man is. It isn't transphobic to understand basic science.

I agree with JK as most women do. But some are too afraid to say, let's hope more join in.

[StraightenUpAndFryRight]

@nestisflown I think there is but lots of people hide the feminism board. Also imo this is to do with free speech, not just feminism.

[Qcng]

09:48 mauvaisereputation
She was not kept entitled to her beliefs (as the judge apparently acknowledged) but posting goady views on a workplace message board that are clearly intended to denigrate a colleague's own perception of their sexual identity is just disruptive behaviour.

That isn't what happened I don't think?
She was posting on her own private and personal Facebook page, but unfortunately had one or two (non trans) colleagues on it who reported her to HQ.
It's not confirmed that there are any specific trans people there, but given it's a large company the likelihood is there may be, but Maya wasn't directing comments to anyone in particular.

[foihnula80]

Read the article then come back at me with the "but it's science" bollocks.

viva I love the idea but MN isn't a safe space for trans or non binary individuals. It would only end badly which is such a shame tbh

[AngelsSins]

I love MN but it's a shame it's such a den of disgusting transphobes who can't be arsed to educate themselves

There was nothing transphobic about her tweet, if you think it was you need to grow thicker skin. Forcing women to deny the very biology they’ve been oppressed for possessing is pretty damn femalephobic though.

[efeslight]

I agree with JK Rowling.

[mauvaisereputation]

@Qcng F - yes sorry my followup post with the link to the judgment corrected this. It was two people outside her organisation.

[JanesKettle]

MN isn't a safe space for trans or non binary individuals. It would only end badly which is such a shame tbh

Oh grow up.

Women talking isn't a threat to anyone.

[shinysinkredemption]

She's right, and I can't believe we need to have a conversation to reassure ourselves that women (XX) are different to men (XY).
I could identify as an Olympic medal winner but I doubt I'd get any actual medals.

[mauvaisereputation]

@Qcng - also she wasn't just posting on a private FB. She was posting on her public twitter specifically addressing professional contacts about another person in her industry, and then she defended the comments on her workplace slack.

[fligglepige]

I agree with JKR. Stating the biological fact that you can't change sex is not transphobic. There are so many lies being peddled, if you look on the comments to her comment on Twitter it's all 'the biology books say you're wrong!' (no, they don't) and 'you hate trans kids and want to make them kill themselves!' (no, she doesn't.)

The refusal to accept facts, the over the top rage and grief and the threats of suicide from some trans people on that thread just goes to prove how worryingly lacking mental health support is for trans people. Self ID will remove even more of that support for them.

[foihnula80]

I'll leave you to your lovely little dehumanizing sesh. Just couldn't resist being the token non cis poster

[TreeSwayer]

@mauvaisereputation there is a full discussion (or several actually) on the Feminists boards with people who have a very in-depth knowledge of all the legislation involved in this case.

Makes for an interesting read when you don't just look at the judgement but see the implications of such a judgement.

Here for anyone interested

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3772219-maya-lost-can-it-be-true

But I completely agree with JK and Maya.

[ScrimshawTheSecond]

mauvaisereputation what is a slack?

[Qcng]

mauvaisereputation
Yes, something like that, and sorry it was Twitter not Facebook!

[bibliomania]

Thanks for the link to the judgement, mauvaise. I also scanned it quite quickly, but I find it problematic, particularly paragraph 84. The judge says that Maya has a genuine belief that the sexes are binary (so trans woman are not actual women) and he says that she is not allowed to have that belief, because it is incompatible with the dignity and rights of others.

[vivariumvivariumsvivaria]

Foihnula "I love the idea but MN isn't a safe space for trans or non binary individuals"

That's a shame. You are here, you seem robust and bright enough to explain things which are complicated. Without discussion and understanding there will be no progress from the endless name calling I see online. Fair enough, though.

[mauvaisereputation]

"She's right, and I can't believe we need to have a conversation to reassure ourselves that women (XX) are different to men (XY)."

What do you think of the part in the judgment that specifically addresses this? para 43 - drive.google.com/file/d/12P9zf82TicPs2cCxlTnm0TrNFDD8Gaz5/view

[OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg]

MN isn't a safe space for trans or non binary individuals

Yes, what with all the death threats, doxxing, intimidating memes, no-platforming of trans people...oh no, wait, that's what the TRAs do to women.

Come back to me when you find anything 1% as hateful and threatening as the stuff directed to women on a daily basis.

[merrymouse]

that were in reality directed at one particular trans person in the workplace.

1). Have read judgement and can't find evidence of her directing tweets at anybody in her workplace.

2). How is it possible to discuss trans rights or women's rights if you ignore the fact that Gregor Murray is a gender conforming male bodied person?

[JanesKettle]

Also imo this is to do with free speech, not just feminism

This is where I think those cheering on the book burnings, both literal and metaphorical, are very short-sighted. It's all fun and games when it's the people you don't like whose freedoms are restricted...but use your imagination...a society that grows comfortable restricting speech is a society than can easily turn around and restrict YOUR speech in turn.

It does no-one any good, regardless of whether they believe in gender or not, to support increasing authoritarianism.

Many of these people also witter on about intersectionality, yet I saw the most appalling abuse today directed at a black lesbian woman who dared to retweet JKR. So much for intersectionality!

[Qcng]

specifically addressing professional contacts about another person in her industry
Except that part didn't happen?