To agree with JK Rowling?

[StraightenUpAndFryRight]

mobile.twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1207646162813100033

‘Dress however you please.
Call yourself whatever you like.
Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you.
Live your best life in peace and security.
But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real?
#IStandWithMaya #ThisIsNotADrill’

I agree with you shiny, in case that's not clear. I think the judge got it wrong.

I agree.

At least JKR can use words to communicate her meaning. She has insulted nobody. She can discern reality.

I would love someone on the TRA side to set out their own stall so clearly.

As an aside what is dehumanising about calling someone a man? Men are human too you know!

That's good to hear @MichaelMumsnet

I suspect there are also a few PBPs on here, who are deliberately spreading disinformation about Maya Forstater. Maya is, of course, a Mumsnetter

People can read Maya's own words here:

medium.com/@MForstater/claimants-witness-statement-abe3e8073b41

They can decide for themselves if her views are 'not worthy of respect in a democratic society'.

I agree with JK Rowling

I agree. And Maya was fucked over by a judiciary that has traditionally been anti-women and they know what a woman is when they fuck us over.

para 25 of the judgment?

Pip Bunce is not a colleague of Maya Forstater and is somebody who sometimes identifies as male or female on different days.

Can you not see how discussing whether it's possible to identify in and out of being female is relevant to sex based rights?

@mauvaisereputation

Apologies is already posted (internet connection too slow to scroll down all of thread) - but judgment is here

drive.google.com/file/d/12P9zf82TicPs2cCxlTnm0TrNFDD8Gaz5/view

Here's a sample:

[[Believing that the material reality of sex is important does not preclude accommodating a person’s wish to not have their biological sex declared or emphasised in official, professional or social situations in situations where their sex does not matter.

I do not harbour any ill-feeling towards people who do not share my belief, or who identify as transgender or transsexual. Nor would I would seek to humiliate or harass anyone because of their transgender identity or their “gender nonconforming” gender expression]]

Boireannachlaidir , I see, thanks. But Maya didn't post anything on such a platform, did she? It was on her personal Twitter account, as I understand it.

I recommend reading the judgement, for anyone unsure of the exact chilling nature of this decision.

drive.google.com/file/d/12P9zf82TicPs2cCxlTnm0TrNFDD8Gaz5/view

You can also read Maya Forstater's statement here:

medium.com/@MForstater/claimants-witness-statement-abe3e8073b41

Just couldn't resist being the token non cis poster hmm

How wrong can you get? There are practically no "cis" (using your offensive word) women here, because very few actual women identify with the stupid stereotypes and gender norms that using that word means.

We are just women. We don't need a prefix.

they know what a woman is when they fuck us over

As always.

JKR has done the hard yards in her life as a young mum, before she wrote the books that made her rich and famous. She knows what it's like to be a woman; unlike Pip and Gregor.

Sadly it takes real courage to say this. Thank you, JKR.

imo para 43 shows that the judge doesn't understand the scientist or their study. He conflates DSDs with transgender; he confuses sex with gender and he uses the existence of DSDs to extrapolate that means sex isn't binary but that isn't what the existence of DSDs means.

I remember a TED talk from a scientist where their research findings had been used in a famous case. They were appalled at how little the judge understood and how they misrepresented it. That para reminded me of them.

bibliomania I got that thanks, I wholeheartedly agreed with you and thought it deserved repeating! Mad times we are living through.

MF did not work at Credit Suisse, she worked at a think tank that campaigns against global inequality and poverty.

How can you talk about the effect of lack of access to contraception on women's rights if you can't talk about sex?

And Maya was fucked over by a judiciary that has traditionally been anti-women and they know what a woman is when they fuck us over.

That would be the judge who lists himself as a "Diversity and Community Relations" judge. Given the level of regulatory capture we're dealing with, I can well imagine where any 'diversity training' for the judiciary may have come from.

Ah, I see you've already found it!

Absolutely this.

I hugely admire JKR for putting her head above the line and saying this. It’s helped more women than she will ever know

Wrt para 43, even if hypothetically Maya's belief in sex were shown to be wrong, she should still have the right to express them in the same way that she would if her views on biological sex had been formed because of, say, a religious text. And actually I wonder if, had she had a religious motivation for them and been able to point to them as being part of a spiritual belief system, the assessment would've differed.

I am so annoyed by this. How can we have reached the stage where some people want to argue biology is optional.

Biological sex is a fact not an opinion.

merry that's the part I find most odd tbh. I've worked in int dev, sex is integral to everything you're trying to achieve. It will be in every impact assessment. You can't talk about FGM; child brides; rape as an instrument of war; the high abandonment of girls in India etc, etc without knowing the difference between men and women.
I do wonder if that's why the judge conflated sex and gender so he could chastise Maya for not 'respecting' gender changes when actually her arguments were always about sex. You can perform whatever socially constructed gender presentation you like. It doesn't change biology.

Finally! A bit of pushback against the insanity.

The tide is finally turning.

he confuses sex with gender and he uses the existence of DSDs to extrapolate that means sex isn't binary but that isn't what the existence of DSDs means.

Exactly. Women's rights are dependent on resources and laws that have nothing to do with their identity. To take just one example, it doesn't matter whether you are pumping milk and storing it in a fridge or making up formula, if you don't have access to either, as a woman you can't leave your baby. This massively impacts on a woman's ability to earn money and be independent and has nothing whatsoever to do with identity. However, you can't talk about those issues if you can't talk about sex and what the word 'woman' means.

Absolutely stand with Maya and JKR - these misogynist arse wipes were looking for any excuse to pile on JKR.

In fact, as long as you're female and have an opinion you're fucked on social media.

Trouble is we're no longer staying silent are we.

The replies to her twitter comment are deeply unhinged. Some of them are burning their copies of her books...actually burning books. Always a good indicator of a sane and balanced approach to debate.