To agree with JK Rowling?

[StraightenUpAndFryRight]

mobile.twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1207646162813100033

‘Dress however you please.
Call yourself whatever you like.
Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you.
Live your best life in peace and security.
But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real?
#IStandWithMaya #ThisIsNotADrill’

I totally and utterly agree with her.
I’m so frustrated by this toxic environment where so many of us are afraid to publicly express our opinions or show solidarity with people like JK and Julie Bindel on line. I would love to, but am afraid. Only a a few weeks ago I got ‘told off’ by a ‘friend’ on social media for following - yes, following, not liking or responding positively - to a young centre-right type in the media. You’d think I had retweeted and fangirled Katie Hopkins (who is a properly horrible character)! In trying to burst my generally centre-left bubble and allow other views into my timeline for clarity I ushered in the purity police.
What is clear is that there is a new breed of Puritan and they are almost exclusively on the left. It’s terrifying. (And it definitely tipped me over to not voting Labour for the first time in my life.)
What do we do? I have a few trans acquaintances who are amazing, inspiring women and I want to stand with them. But I also believe in science and the feminist fight against misogyny.
I’m very serious though. What do we do? How do we coalesce and get our voice heard without being labelled TERFS and having to call ourselves cis? How do we get our voices heard without being cancelled?
Because we absolutely have to. But it’s toxic out there and the wholesale abandonment of scientific fact is a frightening thing.
Sorry this is long. I’m genuinely very very concerned.

She has money to insulate her but women who have spoken out about this have been treated as radioactive by every company and organisation they’re involved with. Activists got Flora to drop MN for allowing discussion on self ID.

Every charity JK is associated with will currently be flooded with complaints calling on them to openly cut ties with her.

Most people have no idea that the TRA lobby are putting out false information.
They have no idea that the TRA are encroaching on female spaces and the right to speak freely.

They think it is just another human right...not seeing that it is being done at women's expense and worse....it is incorrect.
To start bending minds to believe that day is night if you scream loud enough is really scary.
Well done George Orwell. for seeing the future.

woof

If you don't mind, I'm going to highlight this:

"What is clear is that there is a new breed of Puritan and they are almost exclusively on the left. It’s terrifying. (And it definitely tipped me over to not voting Labour for the first time in my life.)"

Listen Left/Liberal/Democrat politicos!

'Right wing men believe women are their private property. Left wing men believe believe women are public property, and are up for grabs.'

I think what is needed to is to make clearer the difference between gender and sex.
I can change my gender but not my sex.
These words are used interchangeably when that is no longer truthful.

I don't care if it is legal for a man to call himself a woman and do so legally as long as the box that says what sex remains truthful and would be ticked as male.

I have no problems with people wanting to change gender but lets not pretend that it is science to be able to change sex.

Agreed, goldfinch

bibliomania
She posted a link to the judgement after posting her own, very inaccurate, summary. You know as well as I do that many people will not read the full judgement. Then apparently, having ‘skilled’ the judgement, Mauvais declared that Maya had made negative comments on her workplace slack (whatever that is, some sort of intranet, I presume) about someone in the industry Maya works in. This isn’t true. This was after it was pointed out that Maya hadn’t commented about anyone she worked with, but rather people in the public eye. So Mauvais adjusted her comment from negative comments about a work colleague (not true) to negative comments about an industry colleague (still not true).

I stand with JKR and MF
In a way, I'm glad that MF lost. The attention this is now being given far surpasses any attention it might have received had she won.
I applaud them both, and SD, JB, MB, PP and all the other brave women who have put their heads above the parapet.
I salute them.

Of course JKR is right. The only unreasonable position is to somehow think she's wrong. I am flabbergasted at the abuse she's getting but maybe its good that the woman-hating toxicity of the TRA/MRA movement is forced into the light - even better that they're doing it themselves.

Yes, she's right. I hope she knoews most women are behind her.

I support our current gender change laws which are fair and reasonable. I am glad the Government has not changed them and gone for self ID which is a ludicrous idea.

Agreed, goldfinch.

That's some epic level bad faith posting Mauvais

The judgment also refers to her making critical remarks about a director in Credit Suisse on twitter and defending the remarks on slack. Were they critical remarks? Or were they simply questioning the actions of that particular person accepting an award designed for women when they continue to identify as a man for a large portion of their week?

MN isn't a safe space for trans or non binary individuals Bollocks. You have no idea of either the sex or gender identity of any poster unless they choose to disclose it to you. If you genuinely can’t tell the difference between trans/non binary abuse and women simply wishing to protect their hard won sex based rights, then the problem is to do with self absorption and lack of critical thinking skills on your part.

I applaud any woman who has the courage to do as these brave women have done and continue to do.

Yes Xenia.
Fair and reasonable. You may change your gender (and be fairly treated) but according to your sex, may reasonably be excluded from certain sex divided provisions i.e. female/male - jobs/prisons/services.

Reasonable transsexuals and transvestites - of either sex- understand and support this.

Trans genderists absolutely do not.

@Alltheprettyseahorses good point. Maybe it’s better to really get this out there and JKR is such a well known figure and so intrinsically linked to the childhood of a lot of the most vicious online abusers. Of course, these people will not check themselves, even though JKR gifted them something close to a religion for outsiders. They will just attempt to cancel her.
What happens when everybody is cancelled then? Because all humans are inherently ‘flawed’. They’re behaving as if JKR is Michael Jackson. It’s astonishing.

She is right and the whole situation is bonkers.

Some TRAs are relentless and probably capable of being quite dangerous when provoked given their threats

The men are upset

Maya's entire issue is that she wants to be able to talk about this. She works for a think tank, for goodness sake. She initially tweeted a few very tentative gender critical comments and nobody in her industry had the nerve to respond. That is what started her on her journey. She was utterly shocked that in an industry whose entire rationale relies upon open analysis, discussion and challenge, people were scared to talk. About reality.

The threats and infuriated determination to deny material reality, control women, what they say, and even how they define themselves, must be addressed.

JK Rowling get this 100%. Which is why she has now had the white hot glare of fury turned upon on her. The fact that it is, fortunately, futile, because of her status, has the misogynists dropping their masks at lightning speed.

Don't know much about the court case, but don't see that JK Rowling said anything wrong.

I'll call someone by whatever name they choose, will use the pronouns of their choice to the best of my ability (if you pick something obscure people will are going to mess up sometimes). People can live their lives however it makes them happy as long as they don't hurt people. Nobody should lose their job or be discriminated against because they identify as a different gender.

But sex cannot be changed.

Let's hope she helps stop the de-platforming and refusal to debate what the impact is on women and children of a change of law that would allow ANY man to say they are a woman and so get access to women's only shortlists, refuges, women's prisons, female sports teams etc. Some of the most vulnerable in our society - children, women in prison, will be negatively affected by this yet to date we have been unable to have a discussion about it to ensure safeguarding can be maintained. We NEED the totally foreseeable consequence of self-ID to be looked at and addressed.

The thing I don’t understand is, that by virtue of calling people trans or cos shows that they KNOW what a woman is. If they didn’t know there wouldn’t be any need for these precursors. It’s actually batshit insane

I stand with Maya and JKR.

Freedom is the freedom to say 2 plus 2 equals 4.

There is no logic (nor much intelligence) at work within the TRA lobby.

I agree.

The really terrible thing is that we can't discuss it without being accused of being a TERF. Why can't we find a way to support the small number of Trans people without stamping all over the rights of the large number of Women?

Fair debate strengthens a cogent argument. If their position is as strong as they say it is, then let's test it in open debate, rather than shutting down ANY alternative view.

bibliomania

Hang on, mauvaise posted a link to the actual judgement. That's not spreading misinformation.

This posted by mauvaise:

As I understand it, the woman was posting "gender critical" messages on her workplace slack that were in reality directed at one particular trans person in the workplace. She was not kept on as a consultant as a result. The judgment found that this was a reasonable decision by the employer.

is a set of lies which misrepresents what happened and was presented to slur Maya Forstater. Posting these kinds of lies is shameful.