To think it’s socially acceptable in Britain to shout at children?

[backdoormadness]

Since I’ve noticed how disgusting some parents talk/shout/disrespect their children I see it everywhere.

-the neighbours who for six months of the year I can hear them yelling at their kids in the garden (their garden is about 10x15m). Most ironically the dad yelling at them as they were playing too loudly (it wasn’t the kids disturbing my peace).

-when I said excuse me to a lady in a shop who turned around to her child “get out of the way” (it was her trolley in the way). I’m sure if it was he Oh she would have said “babe, you’re in the way”.

• the toddler who was happily dillidalling walking in an empty car park as she was watching a huge flock of birds in the sky “I’ve had enough of you, get in the car NOW, I TOLD YOU TO MOVE”. Just imagine if it was her OH talking to her like that, everyone else in my party would have flinched but as it was to a child it’s somewhat acceptable?

These last two have been in the last week.

I wish it was more acceptable to challenge this kind of ‘parenting’, or at least for it not to be seen as normal.

I'm convinced by 2 are partially deaf. They only respond to a good shout.

Also, we're Canadian so our "tone" of voice is generally LOUD.

But hey, I live in the Middle East were people shout at each other in anger, happiness, sadness, boredom....

Honestly, if I had to chose to live in a how with a short adult or one who whispered snotty remarks to induce guilt or shame to make me behave the way they wished ... "Hey Baguette, how come we are always waiting for you to put your shoes on, do you have a problem, I think you have a problem, can you see how sad it makes me having to wait for you to ready - I'm soooo sad " I'd take the one who is louder and less manipulative, every day.

...house with a loud adult...

Not a how and a short person!

it's unkind and certainly not preferable to "Put your shoes on!" which is neither ranty nor sweary?

I think the point is that 'put your shoes on' had already been said 15+ times and been ineffective.

I popped into the shop before it closed at 8:30 - it was dead (literally nobody around). She didn’t just snap - you can tell the difference if somebody snaps in life. She just used a nasty tone,

She was still shopping at 8.30pm with a toddler. She was probably exhausted. You have no idea what has gone on in rest of her day

it really isn't acceptable to make a habit of shouting at your family members

If you see someone do it once, in a shop, how do you know they "make it a habit"? It might be the only time they snap.

That said, online shopping exists so why put yourself and the kids through doing a full blown supermarket shop? You can't avoid going in for a few things from time to time, but no way would I take small children with me if I had to do a full shop.

I'm also with the person who said a short shout is better than some sort of long winded psychological punishment where they "lose privileges" once they are home. Tell them (which yes, might be a raised voice) to stop whining and get on with life. And don't care what strangers think. You don't know them, let alone care about them, so why care a jot about what they think?

Big difference between that and the nasty swearing at kids you sometimes hear - which obviously isn't a one-off and is from a certain demographic. (yes call me a snob but it's true - I never hear someone with a RP accent telling their kids to f-ing stop whining).

"Put your shoes" on may have been said x15 but not "Put your shoes on!" Because the op is morally opposed to shouting.

I rarely raise my voice but I have snapped on occasion, and probably in public.

Heaven preserve us from the sanctimonious Perfect Parent.

If I've asked nicely more than once, asked firmly more than once and been ignored, then yes I will shout.

That is not being abusive or unkind.

ivebeen sorry to hear about the photo of your Dad. Life with ASD can be a challenge and we all have our limits.

Not just parents, teachers are far worse.

A couple of months ago we were in Rome. Lots of school trips from various countries. Most were calm and well behaved (teachers that is!). We came across a couple of British school groups. The teachers were out of control - shouting really loudly so all around could hear, really laying in to some of the group, not just loud, but some pretty nasty things being said, both having a really, really long and out of control rant about trivialities by the sounds of it.

There are different types of shouting. The end of tether, “Just get in the car!” “Shoes. Feet. Now!” exasperation is understandable. But the other day I heard a woman really shout at her 4 year old, “Don’t just stand there like a fucking dickhead!” which was unbelievably shocking.

tumbleweed
The death stare 🤣

That's awful but it would be no less shocking if she whispered that hello.

I shout at my two and I wish I didn't but - typcial scenario would be like this morning: having asked them nicely four times to brush their teeth this morning I snapped and yelled. We have had exactly the same school morning routine for 5 years and so yes, the shouting was justified and I have explained to them why.

@Baguetteaboutit You are right, and in fact I did think that after I posted.

Yanbu. Some of the answers on here, insisting that it's ok because they're children, just illustrate the problem. There is a fundamental lack of respect for children, and a belief that children don't deserve respect anyway.

I will admit to not being perfect and confess that I have shouted at my dc occasionally, but I have always considered this to be a failing on my part and I have always apologised afterwards, just as I would if I lost my temper with DH at any time. DD understands that I'm human and that I will get it wrong sometimes, but it's very important to me to teach her that shouting and screaming is a totally inappropriate way to express frustration or anger. I can't teach her this if I'm modelling something different.

Honestly, if I had to chose to live in a how with a short adult or one who whispered snotty remarks to induce guilt or shame to make me behave the way they wished ...

@Baguetteaboutit

Again, you do realise that there are more options than just these two things, right?

Parenting isn't a direct choice between between shouting at kids and using emotional manipulation. It's not a one or the other situation.

The point being is that you can levy unkindness at any volume and it is no more kind nor unkind.

Raising the volume commands attention and immediacy and is not unkind in and of itself.

Now, the point I was making is that while the op considers shouting inherently beyond the pale, I think the op's own example of exasperatedly bitching quietly about her children's disobedience is far more toxic.

If it’s a snapshot of a stranger’s life I mentally let it slide because I know I have had bad days as a parent, we all do. Having said that, there is a parent in my DC’s school who dominates the entire playground by literally almost screaming at her DC. She has a four year old who is still in a pram and she’s constantly snapping and shouting at him. I don’t think I’ve ever heard her speak to her children in a normal tone or ever heard her actually be nice to them. She threatened to kill her eldest in front of the teacher because he had lost his school jumper. I’ve also witnessed her ragging the kids around quite violently. Everyone gawps at her in shock, nobody knows what to do. She seemingly doesn’t give a fuck what anyone thinks.

I also overheard a Dad telling his 8/9 year old son to ‘shut the fuck up’, called him a dickhead and asked ‘what the fuck are you staring at?’ I was aghast. I don’t understand why some people procreate.

@Baguetteaboutit actually the way it comes across here is that you're using the idea of "pathetic pleading", "drama llamas", "snotty remarks to induce guilt or shame" and other themes to justify the fact that you shout at your kids. The implication is "well at least I'm not as bad as the alternative" as though it's some how a lesser of two evils choice between these two approaches.

And I think that maybe if you have to invent a straw man argument in order to justify your behaviour then it's a sign that your behaviour isn't really justifiable.

I shout at my children and tbh couldn't really care less what others think. I ask my children nicely 3_times . They know if I get to 4 times I'm going to shout. It doesn't mean I'm abusive or a terrible parent. You need to mind your own business.

Firstly, I rarely need to shout at my kids but when I do so I'm not crumpled by some sense of moral failing. I think that shouting to command children to do as they are told, swiftly and without labouring the point, is reasonable so I don't need to erect a straw man.

I do think that some of the discipline tactics that are considered "kinder" are executed in such a way that they are confusing to children, that they are not very effective and have the effect of invoking anxiety.

I don't need you to believe me or to agree with me. It's simply my considered opinion, make of it what you will.

Op I used to think the same then I had kids. I only have so much patience. Before I shout I've asked nicely several time's

Not even perfect parents are perfect
raisereadykids.com/perfect-parents-bad-for-children/

This is just because we are expected to raise children as if we don't work & wirk as if we don't have children.
Being a mother/parent in this day & age is tough!
I am more offended by the other opposite type of parenting that is lazy ignoring unkind words & hitting. I often see children never called out on doing something that is wrong because of guilt because they are working.