To think it’s socially acceptable in Britain to shout at children?

[backdoormadness]

Since I’ve noticed how disgusting some parents talk/shout/disrespect their children I see it everywhere.

-the neighbours who for six months of the year I can hear them yelling at their kids in the garden (their garden is about 10x15m). Most ironically the dad yelling at them as they were playing too loudly (it wasn’t the kids disturbing my peace).

-when I said excuse me to a lady in a shop who turned around to her child “get out of the way” (it was her trolley in the way). I’m sure if it was he Oh she would have said “babe, you’re in the way”.

• the toddler who was happily dillidalling walking in an empty car park as she was watching a huge flock of birds in the sky “I’ve had enough of you, get in the car NOW, I TOLD YOU TO MOVE”. Just imagine if it was her OH talking to her like that, everyone else in my party would have flinched but as it was to a child it’s somewhat acceptable?

These last two have been in the last week.

I wish it was more acceptable to challenge this kind of ‘parenting’, or at least for it not to be seen as normal.

@shiny The point I was making is that Why do I have to ask you 15x to put on your shoes? Is to start a conversation with your child that is akin to 'what is wrong with you?'

It's asking them a question they probably don't know the answer to. It asks them to be introspective enough to know why they haven't met the standard. Why is this necessary? I think it's unkind and certainly not preferable to "Put your shoes on!" which is neither ranty nor sweary?.

What @squashpocket said. Exactly. Kids have different characters, some much easier than others. Also, they fire each other up. So yeah, just one easygoing child, why would you ever shout at them? You could just explain calmly. But that doesn't generalize.

I publicly shouted at my daughter once in front of some school mums. We'd sat in horrendous traffic to get to school for her to tell he she'd left her bag at home. It had her lunch in so I had to go back. It meant I missed my train on my way to my first day of a course. I was livid. She's 10 and had the cheek to blame me for her forgetting it. If someone had challenged me I'm not sure what I would have done, I was so angry at her

Teachers manage behaviour of a whole class without shouting I didn't leave school long ago and teachers shouted at us loads. That was both primary and secondary. Primary we were screamed at and physically manhandled by a few teachers too.

@Squashpocket I'd argue that the more difficult a child is or the worse the behaviour, the more crucial it is to stay calm and in control.

I’m far from the perfect parent.

I tell my kids no.

I don’t put up with bad behaviour and I pull them up. I understand that sometimes kids push us too much. I understand that sometimes kids deserve a good telling off.

It’s hard to convey over text that the way these ladies were talking to their young daughters made me feel uncomfortable and sorry for the kids. I wouldn’t have felt that way if the kids were in danger, or being particularly naughty and deserved it or even if it was in stressful situations. I popped into the shop before it closed at 8:30 - it was dead (literally nobody around). She didn’t just snap - you can tell the difference if somebody snaps in life. She just used a nasty tone, didn’t look at her kid, when I wasn’t moving past she kept on snarking at her girl and afterwards she apologised to me but not her.

Same with the toddler in the car park. I didn’t want to paint a picture but the mum was walking to the car as she was looking for her lighter not rushing to get her other kids from school.

It’s the parents that fly off the handle and then go back to normal around other adults in less than a second.

My BIL recently said to my wonderful DN10 the other day ‘I don’t care what you have to say I said this’. And this isn’t a one off.

It’s the little respect for kids I have a problem with. How can we ask for respect when respect isn’t given?

No parents shouldn't shout. Or let kids eat sugar, or watch TV etc. Reality is occasionally people do shout. Some more than others. It's not necessary, I teach a class of 30 and never shout unless something dangerous is about to happen but a lot of people don't know how else to deal with it. Compulsory parenting classes would be a great idea.

I save loudness for three things at work;

Imminent danger of severe harm to themselves.

Imminent danger of severe harm to others around them.

Imminent danger of severe harm to extremely expensive equipment.

For the rest, it's easier (on the kid, the passers by, my vocal chords) and more effective to speak firmly. Volume isn't necessary as much as depth and tone.

Or, to put it another way, why bark like an overexcited Spaniel when a Rottweiler's low growl is infinitely scarier?

Clearly not a parent yourself OP. Sometimes it’s the only thing that works. Try telling/explaining/ asking a child to do something ten times over in a stressful environment with other kids to keep an eye on, crowds to avoid, juggling a hundred tasks at the same time, judgemental people looking on (ie you) only to be ignored, kid getting more and more excitable/ naughty / pushing the boundaries more and more, putting themselves in danger even and see if you would maintain your lovely calm zen like state.

You are judging parents based on a snapshot of what you see of their life so yes YABU.

If you have to ask your kids 15 times to put on their shoes you can imagine that someone who have had to do the same followed by the same amount of request for the coat, scarf, to get in the car, get off of the car, to stop running in the aisle of the supermarket, might be at the end of their tether at the moment you might happen to hear them raise their voice at their kids.

So many things happen behind close doors that might lead to the outburst you notice and chose to judge.

I work in childcare and used to be a teacher, I have definitely raised my voice before, sometimes it's what it takes for the kid to focus and take you seriously and get things done. I can guarantee you that most teacher raise their voice, in fact at school, I found more bullying coming from teachers than I ever did anyone else.

Teachers will not blink at telling you aren't good for much, or that your work was ''pathetic'' I even had a teacher of mine tell us our lack of intelligence was the reason there was a rise in Nazism in Europe (I am in my 20's so school isn't that far off for me). Hearing ''you are an embarrassment'' from a teacher was pretty common for a student to hear growing up (and I have moved a lot so been exposed to lots of schools and teachers), some would even bring up personal things to embarrass students in front of the whole classroom.

So no, teachers don't ''sweet talk'' kids into staying calm, from my experience they can be appalling and use bullying tactics or use the '' you can go to the headmaster's office, or i'll call your parents, or you will get suspended, or you wont go to recess'' to submit kids into listening.

As a teacher I never ever bullied a student and never ever would have talked down to them but I would have had no qualms raising my voice slightly had it been necessary. As you said yourself, if as a mother it takes you 15 times to get them to put their shoes on, imagine the chaos if we had to wait for each kid to be ready and do things when they saw fit, nothing would get done, they wouldn't learn anything and they would continuously disrupt other kids.

Sometimes being stern is what's work best and if that's the case well I won't judge. I judge way more the parents who enters a 30 minutes negotiation of '' Come on honey'' with their kid who don't want to put their shoes on, making everybody late.

Let me guess.

All these parents behaving like this are either looking for a lighter, too preoccupied with their phones, have sharpied on eyebrows and probably wear their pyjamas in Asda.

You sound really judgemental. A snappy tone is in no way comparable to prolonged shouting or screaming which is what your title implied.

Sometimes people's frustration get the better of them. Perhaps the toddler in the parking lot has had 5 tantrums today. Perhaps the toddler kept them up all night and just wouldn't sleep.

Honestly kids can be jerks and sometimes parents are human beings who make mistakes and do things they probably shouldn't. Like shouting at their kids

YANBU but I think it’s more acceptable amongst a certain type of person (I am sure I will get stuck for saying that).
I am not a British and bringing up my children in this country it’s been one of the most shocking things for me. I was never shouted at as a child and never came across adults shouting before I came here. In my home country it would be totally unacceptable and people would phone social services I think. I have never shouted at my children. It’s disrespectful and signals a loss of control. I behave like an adult.

I actually think there is potentially more of a concern for a child that is too timid and never needs to be told twice! That could suggest they are scared of the caregiver to the point they are scared to put a foot out of line.

Everyone loses their shit at times. You might see the child being shouted out for not getting in the car the first time. The reality could be quite different and they’ve probably been told several times.

There’s a particular strain of really nasty, mean-spirited public humiliation of children that I have only ever seen in the UK. Some of the worst people I’ve known for this were a primary school headteacher and her arsehole of a husband who used to live across from me with their two brow-beaten children (who always seemed perfectly well behaved to me). Every morning you’d hear them shouting ‘get a fucking move on, you useless piece of shit’ - with no shame at all that everyone in the neighbourhood could hear them. To these people it was 100% normal and acceptable.

If you have children I imagine it’s one toddler aged one. I don’t shout at my children. I never have. Neither does DH. But I can certainly see why people do. They know how to get on every last nerve you’ve got and then push it just that bit further don’t they.

There are varieties of shouting though, aren't there. I've shouted/raised my voice at mine on occasion when all other options have been exhausted. However the disdain/disgust/venom I hear from some parents makes me both sad and angry at times.

On the opposite end of the spectrum you have the parents who stand by ineffectually bleating “We only use gentle hands Hugo.”

Obviously shouting at anyone isn’t ideal but the crux of it is that children are terribly unreasonable and there’s no reasonable way to deal with them. I don’t agree with yelling is a good way to deal with them (although I confess that I occasionally snap and do). But I also don’t presume to judge people who take a different approach. The only good way to deal with children is to accept that they will often fall woefully short of the mark and persistently tell and show them how to do better. Obviously this isn’t always possible either because it isn’t possible or because parents simply loose patience.

Teachers can send misbehaving child out of the class to the head therefore passing the buck before they get to shouting point and also get to hand them over at 3pm.... parents cant do that.

I'm not perfect, I try not to shout but after asking said child to put their coat on for the 10th time in as many minutes I do snap at them. Theres a difference between child abuse and normal day to day challenges bringing up children. I dont smack mine, wont manhandle them unless they put themselves in dangerous situations. Yes I will be sharp and tell them straight if they continually dont do as they are asked /misbehave.

I've become afraid to discipline my children in public. I've noticed a difference in society's attitudes towards parents even between having my DC1 and DC3. The only thing judged more harshly than a badly behaved child is a parent trying to set boundaries.

I frequently witness parents talking to their children like shit. There's a system to report it on at school. I even did one today.

It makes me extremely sad.

I hate it OP; it's so aggressive and makes me flinch. My Mum was/is shouty and I hated it. DS is just a baby, but I'll always work hard to ensure that I talk to him kindly and without yelling wherever possible (and no, that's not code for not disciplining if necessary).

Oh gosh, I shouted at my 5yo this morning. I did feel bad and did apologise to him once we were in the car. Sadly I'm a bit stressed out about our finances and I have a short fuse. He was also not listening and we were running late. I really am trying to shout less and be more relaxed. I know what to do but in the heat of the moment it's being able to stop my usual pattern and do something else.