To think it’s socially acceptable in Britain to shout at children?

[backdoormadness]

Since I’ve noticed how disgusting some parents talk/shout/disrespect their children I see it everywhere.

-the neighbours who for six months of the year I can hear them yelling at their kids in the garden (their garden is about 10x15m). Most ironically the dad yelling at them as they were playing too loudly (it wasn’t the kids disturbing my peace).

-when I said excuse me to a lady in a shop who turned around to her child “get out of the way” (it was her trolley in the way). I’m sure if it was he Oh she would have said “babe, you’re in the way”.

• the toddler who was happily dillidalling walking in an empty car park as she was watching a huge flock of birds in the sky “I’ve had enough of you, get in the car NOW, I TOLD YOU TO MOVE”. Just imagine if it was her OH talking to her like that, everyone else in my party would have flinched but as it was to a child it’s somewhat acceptable?

These last two have been in the last week.

I wish it was more acceptable to challenge this kind of ‘parenting’, or at least for it not to be seen as normal.

OP YANBU. These threads always make people so defensive (cue all the ‘I bet you haven’t got kids yet OP’ comments).

I know exactly what you’re talking about and it is a general disrespect of, and casual unkindness towards, kids.

And no I am not perfect and yes I have shouted at my kids but in the next moment I have apologised and explained why I lost my temper. Because otherwise when they shout at me or one another how on earth can I tell them with a straight face that it’s not okay to shout and that we can resolve our problems by talking through them?

Is it my imagination or is shouting a cultural norm in countries such as Italy and Spain. I see loads of loud guilt tripping verbal hand waving Portuguese etc. Warm and snuggly with little ones one minute, hands waving and shouting the next.

YANBU. Of course everyone would shout if something dangerous was happening and they needed to ensure immediate attention but routine shouting or just talking aggressively to kids is definitely not great. I think partly it's a cultural thing - if you grew up that way you consider it normal. I also think some people just have poor emotional regulation - either because they have more stress in their lives or they are simply not good at remaining calm. It's clearly ridiculous to expect children to keep their cool when we can't model it ourselves.

To all those posters who think it's ok to shout at children, would you be happy if school staff spoke to your children in the same way?

But there are different kinds of shouting aren’t there? It’s not all the same.
I know the kind of shouting you mean OP, I’ve heard it, it’s a nasty belittling tone that makes the child feel totally hated, it’s just terrible. It can include name-calling, awful judgments and criticisms about the child , labelling them in certain ways, and putting them down, it is abusive.
But then there is the “would you PUT your shoes on NOW? I told you we have to go out, we can’t be late and I’ve asked you 10 times!”
To my mind, that second kind of shouting is a human being who gets impatient at times. I don’t see it as being as damaging, it’s not ideal but they’re not being cruel.
I think the content and the tone makes a huge difference.

When my kids were at junior school I did some parent helper mornings and I was shocked at how teachers shouted

I sometimes shout at my children. But only I’ve calmly and repeatedly asked them to do something and usually they can’t hear me because they’re giddy. The shouting is the only way to get them to hear. I’d be more than happy for anyone else to do the same with my children if needed.

I saw something similar just the other day. I was walking down the high street and a mum, dad and daughter (about 3-4 yo) came out of the shop. They had bought the girl a colouring book which she was clutching onto with both hands. Shortly after, the little girl tripped on a loose cobble stone and fell to the ground with the new book flying across the pavement. The dad pulled her up by the neck of the coat and shouted at her that she needs to stop being naughty.

Luckily the mum was there to comfort her as the little girl had scraped her hands and even ripped a hole in her tights by the knee. I gave that man the meanest evil eye I could do and his facial expression changed from angry to embarrassed quite quickly.

I live abroad now and whenever I go back to the U.K. I am shocked by the way some parents speak to their children, I don’t mean shouting at them when they’re being naughty, that’s to be expected, I mean the swearing and abuse that certain parents aim at their kids...it’s awful and i just don’t come across it in North America.

I’m sure some people who have read this thread and thought I was being precious will see it everywhere.

Full on road rage at kids.

The first time I ever noticed it a woman was really kicking off at her toddler (I was across the road so couldn’t hear what caused it). She then started shouting ‘you better not wet yourself now or you’re going to be in proper trouble... well thats it’

This woman had yelled so much (and yanking her arm to make her stand up as she was sobbing on the floor) that the poor kid pissed herself and then got even more of a yelling at.

Maybe the woman was stressed out as she had just offered to take the child to the toilet, maybe she didn’t have anywhere to change the child. But at the end of the day the parent was doing a fucking shit job at being a parent.

I bollock my kids for misbehaving.and because of that, it's rarely needed. I don't personally want to practice the style of parenting where in a shop, mummy bends down to little Tarquinius and validates his feelings of frustration at not being allowed more sweets and asks him in a gentle manner if he would mind awfully not kicking mummy's shins anymore. To which little Tarquinius replies "NO!" And sticks the boot in again.

Okay, that's a massive exaggeration. The kid in question was actually called Oliver. But yeah. It happened.

Ruaridh's mummy at school doesn't like to shout or manhandle her babykins either. It's why she ended up being stood at the school gates faux smiling and her face getting redder and redder while he refused to leave the playing field for half a damned hour after school was finished and everyone (but me waiting for guitar practice to finish) had left.

Mine get yelled at and my kids know if it's got to that level they done fucked up.

Yes mrstwiddle i lived in N America for years and never saw the level of casual, workaday, spiteful, humiliation of children that I do here. I’ve also lived in Mediterranean countries where people ‘shout’ by British standards a lot more in the course of normal conversation - but I haven’t seen the level of public contempt for children that I do here.

The only thing judged more harshly than a badly behaved child is a parent trying to set boundaries

This.

I also imagine that indulged little Tarquin and Hugo everyone keeps mentioning are considerably less likely to end up with violent or sociopathic tendencies than the kid whose parents shouted at him that he was useless the length and breadth of the high street every Saturday.

@Smilethoyourheartisbreaking

Then boom!! teenage years hit and Tarquin is a disrespectful little git who has no fear of his parents or any boundaries.

Like I said good luck! I'm probably one if the ones who you have heard say shut up to a whiny 10 year old

You set the standard that it’s okay to say shut up to another human being?! Let alone a child. I bet they’ve told you to shut up? And what point did they start swearing at you?

My 17-year-old has never ever swore at me and we’ve never had a shouty argument. We’ve had our fair amount of disagreements over normal things but we just have a fairly normal discussion about it.

Maybe because my mum always shouted and when I was old enough to leave home I did and never really went back.

You know what, I’m a youth practitioner, I have a fair amount of staff under me, I’ve had plenty of relationships and I’ve never told anyone to shut up unless unless they were complete arseholes who I never wanted to see again. Not a ten year old child. That’s nothing to boast about. Fucking he’ll get some respect.

As the t shirt says... if you hear me shouting at my children, you can guarantee I've asked them nicely 8 times already..

@Instagrump

This is a complete strawman argument.

A lot of people in this thread are acting as though it's a choice between shouting at kids or being completely ineffectual as parents and raising tiny monsters. It makes me wonder how these posters navigate their way through life.

You can be authoritative without screaming and you can be respected without being feared.

I can’t imagine shouting at my children. Why would I?

It makes me so sad when I see others doing this. It’s clear they have lost control or aren’t coping. Or perhaps some have normalised that this is how to do discipline.

But then I didn’t grow up in a British family so perhaps this is why my perception and parenting are different.

I once saw a little girl aged about 3 dancing and singing whilst her mother chatted to some friends. The bairn was singing "I'm going to the dentist, I'm going to the dentist". The mother suddenly shouted "Will you fucking shut up? What's so fucking good about going to the fucking dentist anyway?". She shouldn't have had kids.

To all those posters who think it's ok to shout at children, would you be happy if school staff spoke to your children in the same way?

Well to be fair ds doesn't tell them to 'F Off,You Bh', so you know, not quite the same.

Anyway I am the parent that you all love to judge, but have you ever tried to get help for a child with autism? We have had virtually every door slammed in our face. We are eventually getting some support, and it has taken them months to realise that standard 'positive parenting' doesn't work at all. I got a very sour face when I said I shouted, at the next team meeting I had written a letter (I was at work) that if he was my partner he would be facing charges (physical and verbal abuse) Suddenly they realised that we weren't making it all up.

Further sessions with him have shown that he is lacking in emotional empathy, so he just doesn't get when he has pushed it too far.

Anyway I probably am the one you love to judge, but don't worry I hate and judge myself enough, so a little more by someone else won't make much of a difference.

Some people talk to their kids like they're shit and then act surprised when their kids behave like shit. That's not the odd telling off or losing it in a hard day, it's routine meanness.

I only had one child to raise so admit that's easier. I didn't yell at her or bully her. I tried to teach her to be a decent human and treat others with respect. It worked.

OP you are not wrong. It really upsets me to hear the nasty way some people talk to their DC. And yes it may well have been a horrible day and little Johnny may have been asked 20 million times to stop swinging on his little sister's pushchair handles, but there's no excuse for leaning down into his face and shouting "Stop fucking doing that you little shit" (recent example outside a supermarket)

Other things I have been sad to overhear/see
Yanking at a child's arm or pinching them between neck and shoulder
"You always have to ruin everything, don't you?"
Child falls over and get what looks like a painful scrape - "That's your fault for not doing as you're told"
"STOP FUCKING TOUCHING THINGS OR YOU'RE GROUNDED"
"Your mum/dad was a shit/liar/thief and so are you"
"You're fucking stressing me out. One day you'll come home and find I've hanged myself because I can't cope with your shit any more"

It makes my heart hurt. My DS was a victim of abuse like this from his birth parents and it has had a huge effect on his self esteem and continues to do so well into his 20s.

A PP said - sorry I can't scroll back or I'll lose my post - do we think mental health issues have increased because children are shouted at but not beaten as they were 100 years ago? No, of course not. Mental health issues are probably lower than they have been for centuries - we're just much, much more aware of them now, much more likely to seek help and diagnosis.

I try and practice gentle parenting but in reality I am so much more shouty than I ever expected to be as a parent.

Chronic sleep deprivation hugely effects how well I function from day to day and how much patience I have. Add to the mix my child is 'spirited ' and will push the boundaries at any opportunity.

I think a lot of different things have been lumped together here under the term 'shouting'.

There is a huge difference between someone who shouts abusive language in anger at their children at the drop of a hat on a regular basis - and someone who occasionally shouts at their children when they are really out of line after other attempts at discipline haven't worked.

I've shouted at my son on occasion, but never abusive or belittling comments - only when he has really got out of line or been very rude.

It's an approach that has worked for us. If I went full gentle parent 24/7 he'd be a nightmare. I find that about once a year or so he goes through a phase of boundary testing and occasionally during that time gets so bad that we need to shout. Believe me, I never shout as a first resort, we go through all the stages of reasoning, calm authority and so on, that just doesn't always work.

I also think that every child is different. Some respond really well to gentle parenting, some like my son are a mixture, and others need a very firm hand. Even within sibling groups, children respond best to different forms of parenting. Trying to establish rigid rules for how every child should be parented is just dooming some parents to fail.