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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

SNP and Scotland leaving U.K.

364 replies

Hester54 · 16/12/2019 14:11

AIBU to not understand Scotland wishing to leave the U.K., can someone explain to me without being nasty or patronising, why is Scotland’s problem with the U.K.? Even before the U.K. ref

OP posts:
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19
geekone · 16/12/2019 18:02

@TooTrueToBeGood your right I will stop and change my opinion. You win - oh hang on except you didn’t win last time and you won’t again. Toodleoo

Spamantha · 16/12/2019 18:08

Spamantha but that’s the thing though, if England voted for a Tory government, it doesn’t matter what Scotland, Wales or Ireland vote, they could all vote Labour but we would still end up with a Tory Government.*
Yes...that's what I said.

And it's why I think if Scotland goes it alone, Wales should seriously consider it too.

Anniegetyourgun · 16/12/2019 18:08

Well, I really, really hope Scotland doesn't leave, but if they do I wouldn't blame them one bit.

Hmm, I have family there, reckon they'd let me in?

sniffsneeze · 16/12/2019 18:10

Come on up Annie. If your passionate about a better future for you and yours in Scotland then you're welcome here.

sniffsneeze · 16/12/2019 18:10

Woops *you're

slashlover · 16/12/2019 18:11

Hmm, I have family there, reckon they'd let me in?

We'll put the kettle on.

SidSparrow · 16/12/2019 18:13

I in no way believe that geekone fairly represents the 55% that voted against independence. Please don't see her immaturity as the norm for anyone Scottish, pro or anti independence. Most of us are level headed and fair people who have a different idea for the future of our country who mean no harm to anyone.

Geekone is the type of attitude that I ignore, just let them crack on and make a show of themselves without taking the bait.

LagunaBubbles · 16/12/2019 18:18

We were repeatedly told that the only way to stay in the EU was to vote No. I know several people who voted no for this reason, now look what's happened

Cameron announced the EU referendum in early 2013. Indyref 1 was in 2014

Not sure what your point is, are you saying those of us saying it was a case of "you need to vote no to stay in the EU" are making it up? Confused

The Indy Ref came after it was announced the UK was having a referendum on leaving the EU as you said , and it was used as a threat in the run up to it.

TooTrueToBeGood · 16/12/2019 18:20

Well, I really, really hope Scotland doesn't leave, but if they do I wouldn't blame them one bit.

Hmm, I have family there, reckon they'd let me in?

If you're a decent person you'd be welcome whether you've got family connections or not. For most Scots (except those who think their fantasising about slaughtering the English when singing Flower of Scotland), you're Scottish if you choose to make Scotland your home, as simple as that. we're all Jock Tamson's bairns.

slashlover · 16/12/2019 18:26

The Indy Ref came after it was announced the UK was having a referendum on leaving the EU as you said , and it was used as a threat in the run up to it.

Exactly. The threat was essentially that if Scotland voted Yes then they would no longer be part of the UK and therefore no longer part of an EU member country, so would have to leave the EU and reapply to join as a separate country. The only way to remain in the EU would be to vote no.

Clearer?

StoorieHoose · 16/12/2019 18:28

What song get sang at rugby matches about killing English ?

LightsInOtherPeoplesHouses · 16/12/2019 18:30

If Scotland does leave the union, I hope we do too. Support for Welsh independence is already rising.

This. I've never supported Welsh independence until now.

It was because of Thatcher's legacy that we narrowly voted for the Welsh Assembly. Could Boris Johnson drive us to independence?

kidyoullmovemountains · 16/12/2019 18:38

Agree with thefairyfellersmasterstroke on all their points.

This feels a pointless thread op since you're not really replying to the points that some of us Scots are making (as you can see we're not a homogenous robot race just as the English are not either!)

We don't get the government that the majority of us vote for. And never will. And the majority of us do not like the Conservatives (again, not all). Also, most of the NHS workers I know dislike their policies through bitter experience (I am one of those). Ps, also, one of my parents is English. They vote SNP and believe wholeheartedly in the need for independence.

Hope this helps.

SilverySurfer · 16/12/2019 19:50

If independent Scotland is such a great idea, why are the polls still showing pretty much a 50/50?

slashlover · 16/12/2019 20:02

If independent Scotland is such a great idea, why are the polls still showing pretty much a 50/50?

www.heraldscotland.com/news/17506742.bbc-in-bias-row-after-senior-journalist-criticises-colleagues-over-indyref-coverage/

A senior journalist has sparked a row over alleged BBC bias during the independence referendum, after claiming that colleagues saw it as their responsibility to show how “foolish” it would be to vote Yes.
Allan Little, who led the BBC’s referendum coverage, told a documentary that some colleagues had an assumption that the Yes argument was “wrong”

www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/bbc-bias-and-scots-referendum-new-report/

One obvious explanation lies in the editorial decision to allow all three anti-independence parties to respond to each SNP statement creating an unavoidable predominance of statements from the former even when these were kept short. Anti-independence statements were heavily concentrated on economic affairs such as alleged increased unemployment or closures after independence

Tavannach · 16/12/2019 20:13

“Scotland” don’t have a problem with the U.K. the SNP and 45% of the voting public in Scotland do.

45% voted SNP AND 9.5% voted Lib Dem, both parties which campaigned on a Remain platform, so 54.5% for Remain.
18.5% voted Labour, which dithered.
Only 25% voted Conservative.

If independent Scotland is such a great idea, why are the polls still showing pretty much a 50/50?

I'm not aware of any poll since last week's election. I'm pretty sure it would be different now.

sniffsneeze · 16/12/2019 20:52

Here's the former Scottish Labour leaders take on it

SNP and Scotland leaving U.K.
TooTrueToBeGood · 16/12/2019 21:24

Far too many people are trying to read things in the statistics to suit their own hopes or agenda.

Let me tell you how I voted and why. I voted SNP. Not because I am pro independence, I'm at best very undecided having been a resolute No last time round.

My first concern in this GE was that I didn't think either of the two main parties, mainly by dint of their leaders, deserved my vote. Boris is a bumbling, self-serving buffoon who has proven beyond all doubt that not a single word he says can be believed. He has no respect for anything besides his own ego. he treats the both law and parliamentary convention with utter contempt. Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe is rotting in an Iranian prison because of his utter incompetence.

Corbyn, well I cannot ignore the concerns of the Jewish community and I believe he has done the square root of fuck all to deal with the anti-semitic elements in his party. Then there's the fact that whilst I agree to some extent in the principle that essential services should not be privatised (in an ideal world), he has done nothing whatsoever to reassure me that his plans for a mass re-nationalisation campaign are remotely credible or workable. He has shown no flair for leadership at a time when being leader of the opposition should have been a walk in the park.

TLDR: neither leader of the two main parties is, IMHO, fit for public office, far less the position of prime minister.

So I can't vote for either the Conservatives or Labour and this was such an important election I could not afford to waste my vote. My constituency is a two horse race between the Tories and SNP, nobody else has a cat's chance in hell. So I voted SNP. I knew the SNP would claim my vote as a mandate for independence but it's not. At most it's a begrudged mandate for a referendum. Frankly, I'd rather not have a referendum but I'd take incurable, suppurating genital warts over Boris as PM. So I voted SNP and I'll worry about IndyRef when the time comes.

All this is the fault of those who fought for and voted for Brexit. They can tell me until they are blue in the face that they knew what they were voting for. They didn't because they couldn't. The problem is they are too fucking thick to realise that and I really do not care if that offends anyone so don't waste your breath objecting. There are too many complexities, too many unknowns. Predicting the final outcome of the UK exiting the EU is like trying to predict the weather on a specific day in 5 years time - it is the very definition of chaos theory. Yet for some reason enough people lacked the intelligence to realise that jumping off a cliff blind-folded into a black void was not a particularly sensible idea. I have to live with their decision. They will have to live with mine.

OhChristmasTreee · 16/12/2019 21:30

Scotland doesn’t have a problem. Scotland has already voted no to independence.

This does my head in. People make out like every single Scottish person wants to leave the union and hates England. This is categorically not the case. A large minority, yes.

Hohonoshow · 16/12/2019 21:34

What percentage of Scottish people do you think hate the English, ohchristmastree? Just round it up/down please.

OhChristmasTreee · 16/12/2019 21:35

For most Scots (except those who think their fantasising about slaughtering the English when singing Flower of Scotland), you're Scottish if you choose to make Scotland your home, as simple as that. we're all Jock Tamson's bairns

I hate this pish as well. We are not some kind of friendly and welcoming homogeneous mass of people. We are just the same as every other population. There are utter racist, xenophobic, homophobic - all the phobics - twats among us too. It’s not like 0% of Scots voted to leave. That’s not the case.

We have problems with drugs and alcohol (and the weather is shite).

Hohonoshow · 16/12/2019 21:36

Sorry, hates England

OhChristmasTreee · 16/12/2019 21:37

Hoho as you know I meant Westminster rule and being controlled by England. Although I’ve seen and heard a lot of simple hatred too so let’s not pretend it’s not there.

EC22 · 16/12/2019 21:40

Scotland is a unique country with unique needs. Why shouldn’t it have its own government who have actual power. At the last referendum the earth was promised to stay- it never materialised.

JeezyPeeps · 16/12/2019 21:51

*I read somewhere the other day that 45% of Scots voted for independence in the referendum, and at the general election 45% voted for the (independence backing) SNP

So it still doesn't sound as if a majority want to leave the UK does it?*

Well, if you want to talk vote share - at the time of the independence referendum, snp in Westminster had less than 20% of Scotland's votes - yet independence got a 45% yes vote.

Not everyone that wants independence votes SNP. Imo the only way to know what way Scotland would vote, would be to ask again. It might be the same result, it might not.

But with the massive political changes coming through no fault of our own, we deserve the opportunity to find out.

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