SNP and Scotland leaving U.K.

[Hester54]

AIBU to not understand Scotland wishing to leave the U.K., can someone explain to me without being nasty or patronising, why is Scotland’s problem with the U.K.? Even before the U.K. ref

No I didn't know you meant that ohchristmastree because that's not what you said.

Yes, Scotland voted to remain but Scotland also voted to remain in the UK.
I find the blind and blinkered patriotic nonsense from SNP voters totally objectionable.
The SNP government can't manage the areas already devolved to Scotland - NHS, waiting lists, drug epidemics, housing crises, education standards, school buildings falling apart.
Do people really think that replacing Westminster with Brussels will make a difference?
I challenge anyone who votes SNP to watch a House of Commons debate. MPs in places like Bolton have exactly the same issues as we do.
Why divide a nation instead of working together?

Scotland left wing? I lived in west Fife amongst THE most backward,racist people I have ever met!! Shocking!!

"Culturally and socially Scotland is a much kinder country". Honestly, what a totally bizarre thing to say.

I think what people should realise is LIKE THE REST OF THE WORLD a country is made up of people who have lots of different opinions. PLEASE STOP with all the generalisations "Scotland is..."

I live in Manchester which has suffered terribly under the Tories and we are less and less likely to get a Labour government without any Labour MPs in Scotland BUT I totally understand why the Scots want to get away from a non-caring London-centric government. You guys seem to be making a good show of running things for yourselves so you have my support in going for independence. I just hope you can move the border down as far as Manchester.

SuperGaGa 🙌🏻 👏🏻

Because of the large gulf in what kind of policies and government people are voting for in the two countries @SuperGaGa

When countries are bound together but their paths start to diverge, something has got to give eventually. And unfortunately due to the imbalance of power it's always, always, Scotland that has to submit.

At the time of the union the English population was only 5x the population of Scotland now its 11x.

It has become more of a colonisation than a union.

The main functions of the state were designated to be kept separate- church, education, law and banking.

But as the state grew exponentially in the 20th century the main mechanisms of the state eg tax and social security, were universally applied across the union with no power in Scotland to determine its own social and economic policies.

There is a basic democratic deficit in the union that only independence can remedy.

@SuperGaga

The 'nation' is divided. It has been all my living memory (and I'm not young).

I'm sure someone with more energy and interest will be along shortly to tell you why being part of Westminster and being part of the EU are really not the same thing at all.

I suspect you know that really, but just wanted to make a very lazy and inaccurate point.

The SNP government can't manage the areas already devolved to Scotland - NHS, waiting lists, drug epidemics, housing crises, education standards, school buildings falling apart

Except, SNHS is performing far better than rest of UK. In fact, waiting times are measured much more stringently than elsewhere.

We have problems with drug deaths for 3 main reasons. 1. People who are now middle aged with heroin/methadone addiction that has damaged their health beyond repair. 2. Austerity pushing younger people to turn to drugs. 3. Methodology, if you die with drugs in your system it's recorded as a drug related death. This is not the case elsewhere. As I understand it, the information required for a coroner's report is more in-depth here.

All parts of UK have a housing crisis because of Tory and Labour gov in the 80s & 90s. SNP have built around 80,000 which is a massive amount compared to previous gov.

Not sure what you mean about school buildings but I'll assume it's the ones Labour built through PFI. Some of them are in a terrible state, we'll be paying for them for a long time and the legalities around it are making it impossible to work out who actually owned them.

Education standard have picked up, not perfect but show signs of improvement. We've still got one of the worlds highest number of graduates per head of population and world class universities.

No countries perfect but we're making an attempt to tackle our problems and find ways to help people. Could anyone say the same about Westminster?

Could anyone say the same about Westminster

Well of course. 50,000 new nurses! (19,000 of which are nurses that don't leave, so I'm not sure how that counts as new...)

🤣 and don't forget the police too.

You know, one of the main things that struck me during the debates was that nearly everything Labour was offering we already have. Virtually nothing offered by the Torys a part from Brexit of course, applied to Scotland.

Blimey, it’s not that hard to understand! Scotland was an independent nation until the Act of Union and many Scots would like to be independent again. Why did many people in the UK want out of the EU?

StreetwiseHercules no I can’t understand as I’ve always thought as the UK as one, not individual countries, it’s nice to hear the reasons as all I seem to hear is how Westminster is treating Scotland bad and I wondered it what way?

Yeah, the 20,000 new police (to help deal with the mess created when they got rid of about 20,000 police officers since they got in, in 2010)

*Verse from Scottish song sung before rugby matches, which I assume is what pp was referring to regarding killing the English.

"O Flower of Scotland,
When will we see
Your like again,
That fought and died for,
Your wee bit Hill and Glen,
And stood against him,
Proud Edward's Army,
And sent him homeward,
To think again"
By comparison, verse from the national anthem:
"Lord, grant that Marshall Wade
May, by Thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen"

Both refer to historical battles and I'm sure neither involve a desire to kill anyone today.*
*
*
I know this is missing the point, but this indicative of why many people in Scotland feel the way that they feel just now.

This isn't some silly wee Scottish song we sing just before rugby. Like PP has framed.

It's The Scottish National Anthem!! But that matters nothing. It's a 'Scottish song.' And god save the Queen is 'the national anthem.' Because that's the important one.

Our voice is so inconsequential that it doesn't seem to resonate with some people/Westminster that we have our own country that should be heard in big decisions.

But no matter how we vote, even with an overwhelming consensus in Scotland. We matter little in the grand scheme of making change. We have no impact. It feels.

I do not hope for independence, I voted no in the last Indy ref (also influenced heavily by the wish to stay in the EU) but I fail to see an alternative that gives Scottish people even the facade that they matter to British politics as a whole.

Thethiniceofanewday you’ve got a good memory wasn’t that in the 1700’s, A long time as passed since then. Many people in Scotland voted to leave the EU as well, I don’t think many English would vote to break up the union

Yes. And let's not forget the British national anthem, God Save the Queen, final verse -

Rebellious Scots to crush!

Charming.

“ I’ve always thought as the UK as one, not individual countries”

England
Scotland
Wales
Northern Ireland.

HTH

“You’ve got a good memory”

No, I’ve studied history.

Do you actually want to be educated or do you just want to make smart-arse comments?

OP I’m curious as to why you desperately want Scotland to remain as part of the UK. Haven’t read your reasons but plenty of questions about others views
And as for your father in law as I see it he left Scotland 50 years ago so has absolutely no say in its future. HTH
Come now spill the beans.... why do you want Scotland

I wonder how many non English UK people have come across the English people that don't see the rest of the UK as being different to them.

I certainly have. The most memorable was the time I got introduced as English by an Englishman abroad.

When I told them both I wasn't English, he was completely perplexed by the notion that I, as a Scottish person, wasn't therefore English. Really confused by it.

I honestly think that if you look hard enough, op, you'll find many answers to your question in the replies to your thread. It just seems like whatever anyone says, you just keep repeating the fact that you don't understand. I'm not sure anyone can change that but you.

I’ll try it a different way. Scotland was founded in about 850. As a nation it’s coming up for 1200 years old. It’s been in the Union for only 300 of those years. It’s not outrageous or unthinkable that such a nation might want to be independent again (NotAllScots, of course!)

People are different up here.
One example, my posh elderly neighbour. She paid cash outright for her house, kids went to private schools, drives a BMW, goes to church, plays bridge. She's in her 80s. I can imagine in most of England she'd be a tory voter wanting brexit. But she told me she voted to remain and she's appalled at the UK leaving. She's worried about young people getting jobs etc.
Might be a huge guess, but she's left wing whilst her equivalent in England is right wing