SNP and Scotland leaving U.K.

[Hester54]

AIBU to not understand Scotland wishing to leave the U.K., can someone explain to me without being nasty or patronising, why is Scotland’s problem with the U.K.? Even before the U.K. ref

“There is nothing that I'm aware of that suggests that native shetlanders ever spoke gaelic.”

It’s pretty unlikely they didn’t, to some degree...

I’m btw not trying to claim it was ever anywhere near a main language in Shetland when Gaelic moved through Scotland replacing Pictish, it was Norn that took over in Shetland and then of course by the time Shetland was part of Scotland Gaelic has started to recede and it’s Scots that slowly replaces it in Shetland.

But where Gaelic met norn and Cumbric at the very south of Scotland - people were still mixing and communicating.

So statements like Gaelic was only ever spoken in the Highlands and Islands just aren’t true at all and “never spoken” is a very strong claim given how languages work, especially when they’re at that point predominantly spoken languages anyway.

I mean there’s a stronger case for putting Gaelic roadsigns in parts of northern England than in Shetland, but Gaelic not existing there at all is different.

Well I think it's a huge stretch to say it was spoken everywhere, if you mean by that, gaelic speakers moved about a bit.

I haven't ever claimed gaelic was only spoken in the Highlands and Islands. I tend not to make big claims. Unlike the claim that it was spoken everywhere in Scotland. They're is no evidence to suggest it was ever a language used in shetland (by anyone other than visiting gaels)

“I haven't ever claimed gaelic was only spoken in the Highlands and Islands.“

You didn’t, it was posted though.

“Unlike the claim that it was spoken everywhere in Scotland.”

It was only not a main language at some point in history where norn and Cumbric were, so pointing out that it would have infiltrated those areas to some extent is nowhere near as big a claim as it never having been spoken tbh.

I think you are pointing out that it may have infiltrated. Unless you have evidence to show otherwise?

@Hester54 did you miss @thefairyfellersmasterstroke very eloquent response yesterday then?

“I think you are pointing out that it may have infiltrated.”

Well being very pedantic.

Pointing out that it’s highly unlikely it didn’t infiltrate.

This is being slightly derailed by the Gaelic signage. The signage in itself costs little money....they only add the Gaelic when the signs are due to be replaced anyway. This also began before SNP were even in charge. Also, its the UK that had signed to the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages of which Gaelic is a language. They therefore have a responsibility to invest in Gaelic under this charter.

I'm not a huge fan of the signs, I have no interest in Gaelic at all but that doesn't mean others can't be interested or benefit from it.

You might think it's pedantry, but theres a wide gulf between saying something actually happened, and saying its possible or even likely that something happened.

Based on what I know of Shetland, it's unlikely that Gaelic infiltrated to any significant extent, it's much more likely it was only ever used by people visiting.

I think theres a higher chance of it infiltrating Orkney, as geographically it is much, much closer to the Highlands.

Fuck knows and I’m Scottish.

The EU would not welcome us back with open arms.

We have a GDP deficit of 7% making us the poorest country in Europe. The GDP deficit for the UK as a whole is 1.2%. Entry into the EU requires it to be 3% or less.

Not to mention stoking the fires of Catalan Indy if they let us back in.

Why does any country want to be independent? So we can elect a government that actually represents our population.

kikisparks In what way is this government not representing your population, you have the 3rd highest number of MPS

@Hester54 if you mean the SNP is the 3rd largest party at Westminster then you’re right- but surely you can see it’s a conservative government and SNP MPs can do very little to change austerity, Trident, brexit etc without a majority.

This is a fucking bizarre thread.

OP: I don’t understand, give me examples
Lots of PP: here are some examples
OP: I don’t understand give me examples
Lots more PP: here are some more examples
OP: I just want to understand, give me examples.

It’s like that thread before the election where the OP was outraged that the Lib Dems had sent a letter from Alistair Campbell and couldn’t respond to any of the questions as to why she was so angry, she just was.

Anyway the SNP has the third largest Parliamentary grouping but every time Ian Blackford gets up to speak in response to a PM statement, as he is entitled to do, the BBC cuts back to the studio. That’s how much dignity and respect Scotland’s MPs are shown.

And I’ve already given an example of this government not representing Scotland’s population - the three year student Visa.

I think OP is Dominic Cummings in disguise testing out how much sympathy there is for independence

A side note on Gaelic - Duolingo has just launched Scottish Gaelic. In about 2 weeks 100,000 learners have signed up. There is a massive appetite for the language, both in the UK and internationally.

OP is there a reason why you're incapable of reading your own thread?

The poll tax.

“You might think it's pedantry, but theres a wide gulf between saying something actually happened, and saying its possible or even likely that something happened.“

The only reason it can’t be, it happened is that there’s no written evidence because records were kept in their own respective languages.

But there are centuries where mainland Scotland, the islands and Scandinavian countries are sailing backwards and forwards - Shetland, Orkney and the western isles are at various times ruled together and separately, owned by Scotland and Norway. There are marriages, feuds and there’s trading going on that whole time. They can’t all possibly have been all only speaking in their own respective languages.

I live in England but I'm Scottish and lived there most of my life. For a lot of people in Scotland it simply comes down to the fact that they already see Scotland as its own nation, and disagree with the notion of being governed from London.

Personally I would agree with them, and find it incredibly frustrating that, when they had their chance to leave just a few years ago, they didn't take it - and now they're in a situation of being dragged out of the EU against their will, which is something they could have avoided.

The fact that Scotland is on the verge of being taken out of the EU against the wishes of its people, is a perfect example of exactly why many people there do not wish to be part of the UK any more. The decisions and wishes and needs of Scotland's people will always be outnumbered by the rest of the UK - which seems like a pretty good reason to want out, to me.

“Duolingo has just launched Scottish Gaelic.”

I’m curious about that - I know someone doing it, but she says there’s no way to really get feedback on your speech? And she has a non-rhotic accent, so I wonder how well it actually works?

But interesting that so many people have signed up.

You’re either chronically thick or on the wind-up, OP.

I'm English, I think Scotland should have another referendum on the issue as soon as possible, but I do believe it should be ascertained first whether Scotland can join the EU if the vote is to leave the UK.

Hi rasa, it’s very early days for the course which has been created by a small team. I’ve been told that feedbck on speaking is only provided by Duolingo on the really big languages like French German etc. but I’m only signed up for Gaelic so I don’t know if it’s correct.

There’s a FB group your friend might like to join where people are sharing links to other Gaelic resources and chatting with the course developers