SNP and Scotland leaving U.K.

[Hester54]

AIBU to not understand Scotland wishing to leave the U.K., can someone explain to me without being nasty or patronising, why is Scotland’s problem with the U.K.? Even before the U.K. ref

YNK I only ask the question to try and understand why the SNP want Scotland to leave the union, it has nothing to do with the EU ref as the SNP were formed in 1934.
I'm am trying to understand why I keep hearing how Government treats Scotland bad, in what way.
That's all, a few comments have been very helpful

“ StreetwiseHercules no I can’t understand as I’ve always thought as the UK as one, not individual countries”

You still can’t understand despite everything you have read here? That remarkable.

You’ve been wrong your whole life to think of the UK as one country. It isn’t a country; it is a sovereign State made of a union of 4 countries.

It's not up to you what is relevant to SNP voters and members and what is not. Current SNP members weren't alive when the SNP were formed, after all.
It kind of gives away your "daft lassie" act though OP when you actually know the date a political party started!

Find me evidence that gaelic was spoken in Shetland. I don't believe it ever was and I think you are wrong

Well, Shetland used to be part of Norway so it missed most of the Gaelic influence.

You’ve been wrong your whole life to think of the UK as one country. It isn’t a country; it is a sovereign State made of a union of 4 countries.

I'm pretty sure the UK gov fairly recently acknowledged the legitimacy of the Declaration of Arbroath. We can look forward to much discussion the near future on Scotland's right as a sovereign nation forvself determination. 😂

Silly question but does it mean if they leave the UK no longer has to give them money? For free prescriptions and university fees etc?

Don't listen to babdoc, she's an anti-scottish fundie.

CakeandCustard28 - the figures are slightly out of date but you get the general idea.

Yes that's a fucking silly question cakesandcustard. You're embarrassing yourself.
Though to give you the benefit of the doubt, I suppose you're just sad that Westsminster doesn't prioritise free prescriptions and university education in the way the Scottish Parliament do.

@cakeandcustard RTFT

Totally understand why Scotland would want to be independent. Part of the EU and with a socially minded government. Sounds like heaven and I wish the rest of the UK wasn’t going down the opposite route.

@Babdoc Scotland is a country. HTH

Another perspective.

This happens very often when watching the 6 o'clock news.
Rangers and Celtic are massive teams up here. Massive worldwide support. Celtic stadium fills with over 60,000 fans regularly. When an important game is played, its reported in less than a minute, usually after every English league game eg. Scunthorpe etc, and after the England woman's team. I'm not saying that these examples aren't important, but the size of the clubs are in a different league.
Then we get to the weather. Usually up here it's the opposite to London. So it's been pouring here all day and the weather presenter opens with 'what a glorious day its been', maybe a bit of cloud up north (the lakes), then a vague wave of the arm and 'it rained in Scotland'.
Then come on here and read everyone's moans about school holidays starting.. They started in Scotland 3 weeks ago...

I could go on.

The Queen of England is written about a lot here.

Anyways, do you get my point?

Another thread of Scotland bashing.

@Babdoc -- 'Scotland is not a country. It is a region'

I suppose you're one of the ones who'd like to rename Scotland 'Northern Britain'.

Frankly, some of the posts here serve as excellent reasons for independence, even if I suspect that's not their intended purpose.

I agree. The ignorance shown by many posters is astounding... Well maybe not in the face of brexit....

Ironic that some PPs are accusing me of ignorance while revealing their own!

1. Gaelic was only ever spoken in the Highlands and Western Isles. The North East of Scotland spoke Doric and the central belt and borders spoke lallans or English. None of those areas were EVER Gaelic speaking. Today only 57,000 Scots out of 5 million can speak it at all. The SNP did indeed waste money on Gaelic signage - not only road signs but on the livery of police cars, ambulances, local councils, railway stations - in areas that never spoke it.
2. Scotland is NOT recognised as a country by the UN. Look it up. The U.K. is our sovereign state.
3. Scotland's failed Darien colony, failed harvests, and subsequent rescue and financial bail out by England are historical record. Look it up.
4. The Enlightenment is unlikely to have ever occurred in a famine struck bankrupt country with few links to the world beyond their kailyards. The English bail out paved the way for Scotland to develop its full potential, and provided an environment in which its thinkers and philosophers could at last flourish.
5. Scotland's current education failure under the SNP is undeniable. Check the PISA ratings - you'll find Scotland dropping steadily for the whole ten years the SNP had charge of education under devolution. As I said, we are now worse than Slovakia. And of course behind England. The SNP "Curriculum for Excellence" is Orwellian in its utter reversal of meaning. Thanks for all the personally abusjve posts by the way. You eloquently make my case for me about the nature of the SNP and their supporters. Rather like the defacing of our unionist posters during the independence referendum, which spoke volumes.

SSD

Which explains that famous phrase -

'Except for viewers in Scotland' 😂

“Gaelic was only ever spoken in the Highlands and Western Isle”

That’s just not true, you can repeat it as often as you want, but it doesn’t make it true...

Gaelic was pretty much nationwide, yes in Shetland it would have been a minority language because they weren’t part of Scotland and Norn became the majority language... but Gaelic retreated back to the north west mostly because Margaret of Wessex didn’t speak it.

In modern times it very much only survived in the western Highlands and Islands, but that doesn’t make it true that that’s the only place it was ever spoken...

Scotland's failed Darien colony, failed harvests, and subsequent rescue and financial bail out by England are historical record. Look it up.

I have, I even wrote about it in my phd thesis. This is a ridiculously simplistic version of events. The Darien scheme was a disaster but the involvement of English gov at the time didn't help. There's more to it than what's on Wikipedia.

The English gov actively pursued a policy of damaging the Scottish economy. They put tremendous pressure on the Scot gov for quite some time to sign the Act of Union. They didn't come rolling up and bail Scotland out as an act of kindness. The Scottish population was outraged at the prospect of joining the Union.

At the time Scotland wasn't on its own, we had a strong alliance with France. This was part of the reason England wanted to reign Scotland in.

Aren’t the free university places only for people in the EU unless you were born in England

The English gov actively pursued a policy of damaging the Scottish economy

There is no such thing as the English government

There is no such thing as the English government*

There was in the 17th & 18th century. The Act of Unions we're signed between 1706/07

“Aren’t the free university places only for people in the EU unless you were born in England”

Makes no odds where you were born, it’s where you live that it goes on.

Labour always used to win the majority of parliamentary seats in Scotland, but the Scots kept getting lumbered with Tory governments. Being smart people, the Scots realised that their best chance of getting a social democratic government was to elect their own government, and so the nationalist movement started to gather more and more support.

Blair tried to appease them with the halfway house that is devolution but, like much that Blair did, it was only partially successful (from the point of view of satisfying those who want independence that is, in terms of the devolved powers, the Scottish parliament has done a fantastic job imo).

The referendum and its result meant that Scotland, that voted remain, would be forced to leave against their will, and that has, imo, made the Scots even more keen on independence.

Plus they don't want to keep our bloody nuclear submarines at Faslane any more.

I'd move to Scotland in a heartbeat if I could persuade DP to live hundreds of miles away from his family. He's slowly coming round to the idea. If he doesn't go for it, I may just have to start a campaign for independence for Brighton, Hove, Mid-Sussex and Lewes district, all of which voted to remain in the EU.

But the English didn’t have their own government once Scotland joined and still don’t have their own government today