To ask Labour voters

[SilverySurfer]

Since Corbyn, McDonnell and Momentum appear to be continuing their grip on the Labour Party, whoever the new leader may be, do you see a time when the Party would split into two, leaving the above in one and the second being more centrist?

Initially I guess it would virtually guarantee Labour never winning an election but I wonder if you think it's likely the latter would get far more members, enough to once again become a viable opposition party?

I am a Tory but have always believed that Governments need good opposition parties, which has not been the case since Corbyn became leader.

I appreciate there's a fair number of Corbyn/Momentum fans but I would like to know what you think.

Corbyn needs to leave.

Do you think it's enough for Corbyn to leave? What about Momentum? And do you think the party will split even if Corbyn goes but is replaced by a carbon copy of him?

Stupid voting system, meant to turn it off but fascinated that 25% think I'm unreasonable when all I've done is ask questions.

Yes, if Labour keep very left wing I think definitely voters (and perhaps some of their current MPs) would leave and perhaps it's possible a new party might emerge.
Obviously it's very difficult for new parties and so for it to be successful you'd need a decent number of high profile MPs to split off and start it and that's such a big gamble it might be that they decide to stay and try to change labour from within rather than starting something new (to avoid becoming another Chuka Umuna). I guess that would come down to how they feel it is being run.
I'm a labour voter, voted labour this time around as well but I would not want another Corbyn style leader. Personally I'd favour Keir Starmer. But having said that even if they go with sometime like Rebecca Long Bailey, I would vote for her over Boris any day, and don't really see the Lib Dems as viable so would probably still vote labour by a process of elimination rather than through active positive support iyswim.

Corbyn has announced he is stepping down. It's not going to be an instant process: there's going to be a lot of internal politics first. I don't have a clue about Momentum as I am not a party member.

Besides - does it really matter? You are working on the assumption that Labour can actively oppose anything. Johnson's majority means he can do whatever he wants (hello Trump!) and our next election won't be until 2024.

Did any of the splitters get re-elected? Chuka Umunna, Luciana Berger, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, David Gauke all lost their seats.

Pretty sure that would have cooled the desire of anyone else to leave their parties. Plenty stood down too.

@SilverySurfer "I'm a tory" - tbh your posts generally make Thatcher look left wing so I'm not sure why you give a shit about the Labour party.

I think the fight to bring Labour back to more left of centre needs to come from within. I don’t think there will be a split in the party but I believe the membership will elect a more centrist leader when the election happens.

There will have to be an acceptance at some point that they need to change if they want to win the next election.

If the membership is still overrun with Momentum then there’s no way they’ll elect a more centrist leader.

If that’s what you’re looking for, best sign-up if you haven’t, to get a vote on who it is.

You are working on the assumption that Labour can actively oppose anything. Johnson's majority means he can do whatever he wants

But a majority doesn't mean that there's no point in the opposition party/parties turning up for the next 5 years. It's still important for any opposition party to have decent leadership. You can't just say, "oh well Johnson can do what he likes so we'll just admit defeat and hope people vote for us in 5 years time despite us not attempting to oppose anything."
Plus the parliamentary party still effects how people vote in local elections, even though they're not voting for MPs.

The reality is that we need to get the hell away from all this Blair/Brown, left and right wing of the party stuff. And Momentum need to wise up that they are NOT the all conquering political force within Labour, and their outlook is actually doing more electoral harm than good.

Momentum's success can be summed up as follows:

• We spoke the left wing agenda, we managed to get more students and new members signed up to the party
• Therefore we are successful and should be the leading/deciding voice in Labour
• Never mind that we've lost two elections on the spin..we have more members in the membership! Yay!

It's just facile because no one is looking at the voters who abandoned Labour because they felt Labour abandoned them.

It's an inward looking circle jerk of people who are delighted that after decades, someone is listening to them.

P.S Len McClusky is a toad for trying to distance himself from Corbyn and the election result...that's your man, you backed him, now take the medicine you f...

Thank you to those who replied. I'm proud of being a Tory but that doesn't stop me thinking about Labour, whether it will ever be an effective opposition. Voting for one party doesn't mean you never think about other parties but I see that 50% have voted YABU on a thread where I have merely asked questions. If labour voters can't have a sensible conversation I will leave you to wallow in your misery.

Imagine being proud of being a Tory. How embarrassing.

meredithgrey1 I couldn't agree more.

GinDaddy

I'm wondering for every new member Momentum signed up, how many long-term members left the Party in disapproval of Corbyn etal?

Readthisearlier Your in depth response has contributed hugely to the thread, thank you.

proud to be a tory???

You are right we have a stupid voting system. If we had PR we could have more parties each catering for a narrower spectrum.
We do seem to be moving to the right as a nation though for reasons that baffles me.

Another in depth analysis, thank you.

My last post was to Sancro.

Who said we have to be in depth?

I actually would think there would be a much better form of opposition if the left were divided into parties to form a coalition. They would need to establish a tactical way of selecting who runs for selection. I know they call labour a broad church but the momentum left and the centre left seem to disagree more than they agree. Both wishing the other would eff off, to the point I have seen silver lining tweets about deselected MPs. The fighting amongst themselves since the election is heartbreaking.

Momentum could leave but the centrists would have to stay. People can’t win as an offshoot.

I’d be prouder being a Tory , than being a labour supporter who thinks that Corbyn abbot and momentum etc could help the fucking country

How true Evilspiritgin

MarshaBradyo Who is going to get Momentum to leave? I reckon they are pretty well entrenched and I can't see them leaving of their own accord, can you? If Corbyn and Momentum move one of their supporters into the leadership role, there will be no move to get them out which is what got me wondering about a split.

No idea it’s an annoyance no doubt. But people see Labour as the opposition and that is a better place to exist in people’s minds. Stuff like Change UK goes down like a lead balloon.