To ask Labour voters

[SilverySurfer]

Since Corbyn, McDonnell and Momentum appear to be continuing their grip on the Labour Party, whoever the new leader may be, do you see a time when the Party would split into two, leaving the above in one and the second being more centrist?

Initially I guess it would virtually guarantee Labour never winning an election but I wonder if you think it's likely the latter would get far more members, enough to once again become a viable opposition party?

I am a Tory but have always believed that Governments need good opposition parties, which has not been the case since Corbyn became leader.

I appreciate there's a fair number of Corbyn/Momentum fans but I would like to know what you think.

I'm on the left of the Labour party and generally sympathetic towards Jeremy Corbyn, though I'm frustrated by some of the unforced errors (IMO) he's made on Brexit. To answer your question, it doesn't really matter what Labour do for the next five years. Any leader they choose will be relentlessly pilloried in the billionaire press, and they have too few seats in Parliament to be anything more than impotent spectators, shouting from the sidelines like you or me. So they could split into two or three or a thousand parties, or just shut up shop altogether: it's over, and the damage Brexit will do will be permanent and catastrophic. At this point the game isn't worth the candle and Labour members shouldn't stay in a country which is hostile to their values and is about to become unsalvageable. If they don't want to leave the country they should go to Scotland and join the fight for independence, which is the next frontier in the struggle against austerity and Brexit.

Isnt there a politics topic you can use?

I keep seeing people say this, but is it really true?

No it isn't. There are parties he would fit in, but they are not center left, and no center left party across europe was proposing the daft share scheme, or try and nationalise industries below market value.

People pretend we have moved far right or whatever to try and spin Corbyn as being only a moderate, the fact he has Milne and Mcdonell pulling his strings should show how moderate he is.

Too many students and weirdos in their membership for them to change anytime soon. They had 1000's of members join on the back of Corbyn its what they want, their politics is hard left. Which is great for every other party as they're unelectable by the majority of normal folk.

Wow @Saddler. So you are "normal" and the rest are "students and weirdos".

Your world view sounds like it's been shaped by tabloids.

or try and nationalise industries below market value.

This is exactly why the US constitution prohibits government taking of private property without "just compensation", which the courts have always interpreted to be full market value.

I hope not. In principle I am a democratic socialist, or thereabouts. In reality, after the massive loss this election, I am conceding that a government with my views will never have electoral popularity in the UK - and I'd rather compromise with a left-of-centre party than end up in opposition forever. At least this way we have a good chance of helping the vulnerable in society rather than shouting uselessly about it all.

I'm quite hard left myself and a Corbyn supporter. But I am very aware that hard left Labour will not be successful in elections.

Labour does need a more centrist leader if we have a hope of ever getting into power again. I would rather see a centre left government than years and years of Tory reign.

A party wins elections when people on the more hardcore side of their party are prepared to hold their nose and vote for them. Expecting the centre voter to hold its nose does not work. More people are in the centre than on the extreme.

Oh God @Charlottejbt - everything in your post is what I am scared of.

@SilverySurfer is it the rise in food bank use or NHS waiting lists you are most proud of?

tbh your posts generally make Thatcher look left wing so I'm not sure why you give a shit about the Labour party.

You can strongly disagree with the opposing party but still think they're necessary. My views are probably the complete opposite of the OP, but if Labour were in power I'd still think the Tories need to be a decent opposition. An oppostition party in chaos is bad for democracy.

At this point the game isn't worth the candle and Labour members shouldn't stay in a country which is hostile to their values and is about to become unsalvageable.

We shouldn't forget that the Tories did not get the majority of the vote.

I’m pissed off tbh. I voted remain, I’d still like to remain and I voted for Corbyn both times, I’d still prefer him as PM to Bojo the clown. I appreciate we live in a democracy but when 62% of Tory voters were over the age of 65, I feel pretty fucked off. Most Leave voters were old too. Had the referendum happened in 20 or so years, remain and Labour most likely would have won.

I’m fucked off as a younger person, I feel utterly deflated by politics and for the first time understand the mentality of non-voters.

No way are Momentum leaving, Labour needs to split, but then I have thought that ever since Ed Milliband stood down and Corbyn was elected. I still don't think the PLP has come to that conclusion though.

No way are Momentum leaving, Labour needs to split, but then I have thought that ever since Ed Milliband stood down and Corbyn was elected. I still don't think the PLP has come to that conclusion though.

It's momentum that need to leave labour not the other way round.

Mysterian - that would work

PlausibleSuit I agree I sometimes wonder if Corbyn/Momentum have any interest in winning an election at all. Knowing they are unelectable on their policies, if they wanted to win I would have thought they would rein back a bit.

slipperywhensparticus
Isnt there a politics topic you can use?

Yes

Charlottejbt A tad dramatic, When and where are you emigrating to?

Grobagsforever - wrong thread.

@LightsInOtherPeoplesHouses That's true, but the end result is what it is under the system we have. Personally I'd lump Lib Dems and abstainers together with Tories as voters who either chose austerity or couldn't be bothered to oppose it, but that's open to challenge given that the election was perceived as a proxy Brexit referendum

@SilverySurfer France, as soon as the WA passes.

It's momentum that need to leave labour not the other way round.
Or, more moderate people need to join the Labour Party.

Momentum are perfectly entitled to have their say in what they want the party to look like, as is everyone else. Unfortunately, whatever one might think of Momentum's vision for Labour, they are at least politically active and not just sitting around waiting for a party that reflects their views to emerge.

My Sister lives mostly in France now and she loves it. I hope it all goes well for you.

Something that just occurred to me - how many of the Tory MPs are currently on the left of the Conservative party? There have always been Tory moderates just as there have always been Labour moderates, after all. If some of the Tories in Parliament are moderates, there is possibly some hope of Fucko the Clown being reined in a bit here and there. If most of the new intake are swivel-eyed fascists then we really are in trouble. And given the events of the past few months, and the purge of all those not prepared to jump on the nationalistic, billionaire-appeasing bandwagon, I think it might be a vain hope that there are any sensible ones left.

I don't know the answer but I don't think there are many rabid right wing MPs, and imagine the new MPs from the north and Midlands are more likely to be in the center.

Thanks, @SilverySurfer! Life is getting more precarious in France too, but I still feel it's easier to live a reasonable lifestyle there on a low income, provided one stays out of crazily high cost of living areas. I'm glad your sister likes it.

Had the referendum happened in 20 or so years, remain and Labour most likely would have won

This assumes that people’s politics remain the same as they get older, have kids and accrue more personal wealth. We know that’s not true.

The centrists could split off, but that didn’t end well for Chuka.