To ask Labour voters

[SilverySurfer]

Since Corbyn, McDonnell and Momentum appear to be continuing their grip on the Labour Party, whoever the new leader may be, do you see a time when the Party would split into two, leaving the above in one and the second being more centrist?

Initially I guess it would virtually guarantee Labour never winning an election but I wonder if you think it's likely the latter would get far more members, enough to once again become a viable opposition party?

I am a Tory but have always believed that Governments need good opposition parties, which has not been the case since Corbyn became leader.

I appreciate there's a fair number of Corbyn/Momentum fans but I would like to know what you think.

My mate is a political scientist and came round for dinner last night. We had a discussion about how Labour elect their leader. Apparently the vote of an MP used to count more than the vote of a card carrying member, not any more and they have exactly the same weight. This article has a really clear explanation on how Labour will choose.

inews.co.uk/news/politics/labour-leadership-election-rules-who-can-vote-next-labour-leader-nominations-explained-1343638

They basically destroyed themselves with their changes to the new leadership selection process, that’s his take on it. He thinks labour will lose the next election as well. His predictions were correct on this outcome, he was annoyed his actual numbers were out but it was only by a little. He also predicted the middle class being the core labour vote now and the complete role reversal.

Interesting MrsM re changes. Labour shooting themselves in the foot comes to mind.

MsM eep

I think it's history repeating itself. I've seen this before in the Michael Foot years the formation of the SDP then the slow rise again of the Labour Party. I don't think there will be a split this time. But I do think the Party will build itself up again. I just hope it doesn't take another 15 years or i dread to think the type of country we will be living in.
Everything seems to be about image now so whoever is appointed as leader they have to be seen as likable. I thinks that's wrong but they have to 'play the game' to get elected even if they don't like that game.

They basically destroyed themselves with their changes to the new leadership selection process, that’s his take on it.

He's right. In attempting to fix the Falkirk problem, Ed created the leadership rules problem and that led to Jeremy Corbyn.

He thinks labour will lose the next election as well.

And unless the Labour Party wakes up, he will be right about that as well.

Anyone who thinks Rebecca Long-Bailey is the answer is asking the wrong question. She backed Jeremy's leadership in 2015. Her candidacy has the full backing of John McDonnell now.

It's more of the same. Remember the old election slogan - Labour's Not Working? Well, if Momentum gets its way, you can change that to #LaboursNotListening.

For the sake of a functioning democracy, please wake up.

justcly
@SilverySurfer: Considering that half your party are (almost) reasonable people, and the other half make Mussolini look like a socialist, do you see a time when your party would split in two? Or does the joy of victimising those less fortunate serve to unite you all?

I think there are extremists in all parties but I think those further right are in a minority so no, I don't see it splitting but who knows what may happen in the future. If they took power like Momentum have in Labour, then I could not vote for them and would become politically homeless like a lot of Labour voters.

Nice last sentence you slipped in there. I am on a limited income and have been severely physically disabled for many years. How much less fortunate do you have to be?

anunseemlylovefordustin
Why, specifically, are you proud of being a Tory?

Your post has made me think about why I have said that on more than one occasion on here. On reflection I don't think proud is the right word. You may or not agree but Tory voters have been given a good bashing on political threads on here and been called some really vile names - fucking cunts springs to mind - and have been made to feel we should be ashamed of voting Tory and I rebutted that by saying proud where I think what I really mean is that I am not ashamed of my political opinions. I'll make sure I don't say it again because it doesn't really reflect what I mean.

SingingLily

That sounds really interesting - I hope you can find it.

Before I go out shopping I just want to say how much I've enjoyed reading the replies on here - I've learnt a lot.

It's also nice that we can discuss politics without descending into petty squabbles and needling and name calling (for the most part).

Or does the joy of victimising those less fortunate serve to unite you all?

FFS, what a crock of shit.

And I say this as a card-carrying old Labour lefty.

FFS, what a crock of shit.

^ This to the power of 10! Couldn't agree with you more, DancingBear

Shouting at people doesn't persuade them to change their mind. Hurling insults at them only makes them dig in. Accusing them of having base motives just makes them more defiant.

For heavens sake, haven't we all had enough of snide and bile and vitriol?

Similarly, calling me a cuck, libtard, snowflake, triggered etc. is not going to make me want to vote Tory.

Momentum are toxic tbh. I wish they'd fuck off.

Phil, I agree wholeheartedly. And I am sorry you have been called those things. It is inexcusable behaviour.

I wish the Labour party would split in two.

I like Corbyn and co and think we need their version of the Labour party.

But I also think we need a more middle ground version too and don't believe they can stay as one party. The two versions are too different and two sides will never agree.

I think they should split ASAP. There's no way the Labour party as it stands now is going to get itself sorted in the next 5 years. If it splits, in my opinion, it would have a much stronger chance.

Our MP is Labour and Co-op party. I noticed that several Labour MPs are - but not all.

What is the difference between plain Labour and Labour/Co-op?

Momentum are like a blood sucking parasite that has latched onto the Labour Party. Sadly they will never ever give up their death grip voluntarily...they know full well that their only chance of any sort of power or influence in the U.K. results from their stranglehold on labour.

Labour will have to split. Leave Corbyn, his sycophants and the whole pack of momentum bullies to debate their 6th form political arguments while the rest of the party separates to rebuild from the ashes.

Our MP is Labour and Co-op party.

My understanding is that it refers to a historic alliance between two separate parties that found sufficient common ground to join forces.

Ed Balls was Labour and Co-op, and so was Anna Turley.

Oh, I see - thank you SingingLily.

If the Labour party split - I think the middle ground party would quickly strengthen and become the main Labour party. The Corbyn/momentum party would probably be smaller.

I know that our MP would join the middle ground one. She's brilliant. I could imagine her being the Leader. I've joined the Labour party recently just so I can vote for the new Leader.

What would it take for the party to split? Who would instigate that happening?

I wish the Labour party would split in two.

They did once before when a "moderate" faction left to create the Social Democrats citing that the party had gone too far left! History repeating itself! Unfortunately, the SDs didn't really get anywhere and ended up merging with the Liberals to form the Liberal Democrats - that worked well didn't it??

Whoever leaves is toast. And Momentum have the strangle hold atm.

Agree Marsha, Momentum will never let go. You can already see the manoeuvring to force their preferred candidate as a successor. I hope they don’t succeed but I fear they will, handing the next election to Boris on a plate.

A split will be painful and acrimonious, bit IMO its the only chance to rebuild labour as a credible opposition, and god knows we need one. I’d like to see Andy Burnham as the new leader but there’s sod all chance while Momentum are still calling the shots. Infuriating!