To think lots of men must believe in Santa? It’s the only explanation

[NurseryTrouble123]

DH and I have a pretty equal relationship in most respects - parenting, cooking, etc. I wish he’d clean more, but no one is perfect.

But when it comes to Christmas he does nothing. This morning he bought his first present and Christmas card while at the supermarket (for his niece - that gift, something for me and something for his mum are the only things he’ll buy). I used to love Christmas but now I just dread it. I’m lucky the kids aren’t aware that it’s Christmas so have no expectations - this is probably the last year I can get away with it being like this.

He seems to think Christmas just happens - he hasn’t spent a second thinking about what to get the kids, what food we need, ordering the food, arranging plans with family, decorating, properly cleaning the house, etc. When I speak to my friends, even those with very equal partners are doing the vast majority of the extra Christmas-related work.

I’m now wondering if he thinks that presents just magically arrive fully wrapped, food just arrives, decorations just exist in the loft ready to be put up... does he still think santa is real? It’s the only possible explanation for so many men being so completely shit at this time of year.

I’m sure some will tell us lovely stories of their partners doing the bulk of Christmas, cooking Christmas dinner; wrapping and buying all the gifts etc. I’m sure men like that exist but AIBU to think this is not the case for the vast majority of couples? Considering a strike for next year TBH. I just don’t understand how men who don’t usually practice this level of strategic incompetence, and who are usually not oblivious to what needs doing, are suddenly completely blind to these things because it’s christmas-related.

(And yes, I have spoken to him about it but he says deeply annoying things like “I don’t know what to buy”, as if I haven’t had to spend ages figuring out what to get, or “you should just ask for help” as if he doesn’t know that people need gifts, Christmas means a Christmas dinner, or that the tree needs to go up. It’s not “helping” me because it shouldn’t just be my job!)

I buy for my side of the family and wrap. He does the same for his side. We do the food shop together and he cooks it. We buy and decorate the the tree as a family

You're sticking your head in the sand over this. Any NT adult would know it doesn't 'just happen'

Joking aside, he definitely it doesn’t just happen - he knows I’ve done it once it’s done, he just doesn’t take the initiative to actually do it himself or notice it’s not done until it’s done. Which is really odd because he’s genuinely not oblivious about things day to day although I suspect that’s more about being in a routine than actually being proactive. He just has a different mind set I guess - for example, while I’m cooking dinner for the kids I’ll unload the dishwasher, make up their special milk for the night and morning and put it in the fridge. He knows I do this every day. But if for some reason he’s had to do it (say I’m at an appointment) he will cook the dinner, not do the rest and then seem legitimately surprised when he opens the dishwasher and it hasn’t been emptied. Whereas he has a routine of things he usually does while making dinner, so he gets on with them. People always say it’s strategic incompetence but with him I don’t think it is, he is like this in other areas of his life, very routine bound and sometimes unaware of things outside that, but because he’s in a routine of doing certain things I don’t always notice it. Maybe he’s not NT, I’ve wondered myself since the kids have been diagnosed as I can see some similarities (and in me too, to be honest) but it’s certainly nothing severe.

He’s not a prick either, he’s actually great with most things but he’s not perfect (and neither am I). This is one area that I just find really frustrating. The more I think about it

I have told him (yesterday or the day before) that I’m pissed off that it all falls to me. He said I should ask for help, I get frustrated that he doesn’t think “hey, the kids need Christmas presents - what shall we get?”, etc. We usually do communicate well but I think it’s these once a year occasions (Christmas, birthdays) where he just doesn’t think. He wouldn’t want me to struggle, he’s just unaware.

Pointless now really as I’ve sorted most things out, but after Christmas I’m definitely going to talk about it and say that from next year we are going to be doing things differently and say he needs to take over certain aspects of Christmas before I lose the plot.

I'm one of those who's husband takes an active role in Christmas (though cooking is my thing. He doesn't cook and that's fine with me because I love it) but I'm more than aware that he's a special one. That the majority are as you describe. I read your post to him and before I was half though he told me that it's not "helping" because that would mean it was my job and he's only assisting. He's not. He said he could never be like his dad and have no idea what the kids were getting on Christmas Day. My dad was like that too. Christmas magically happened without him. I'd never stand for that I'm afraid. I second your idea of a strike next year. Ask your DH "so, what have you bought the kids? What are they getting this year?"

Of course they do. The same way they believe in the laundry fairy,the washing up fairy etc etc.

My DD has told her DH that HE has got to buy presents for his family this year,as she is sick to death of him expecting her to do it,as well as sort out the ones for her own family. He still hasn't bought a thing. I can honestly see none of them getting anything this year.

He said I should ask for help

That's the crux of the matter, isn't it? We are the ones who have to do all the planning and the thinking and the asking for help - why can't they just use some initiative?

Mind you, when mine uses his initiative, things tend to go off half-cocked so I end up with more work than before he started. He'll write all the cards, but expects them to be ready-bought and available the instant he decides to sit down and write them. I will need to find him a pen. Likewise the stamps need to be provided; also the list of people to send them to. I am breaking out into a migraine just sitting here.

Nope, we are hosting for the first time and DH has carefully planned the food shopping list. Hes sent all presents to his side of the family and our friends. I've (almost) done mine. We have taken charge of a childs presents each. But then again he knows that if he didnt do his half I certainly wouldnt be doing it for him. Stop enabling the man child!

I think an important thing to note here is, all the children growing up in these homes where mum does everything for Christmas, will surely grow up thinking it's 'wife work'.

Why would you allow that?

It reminds me of that awful Asda Christmas advert where the mum was run ragged, but stared adoringly at the lazy git in the living room because he was playing with his kids before uttering the words "What's for tea love?"

Honestly, no wonder so many domestic rows happen over the Christmas period. I imagine some women are like a tightly coiled spring of resentment and it won't take much for them to fly up in the air.

DH has always bought presents for his family. He did it when he was single and I did not see any reason to take over.
Pre-kids it felt about equal. We would go to either his parents or my parents so there was not that much for either of us to organize other than presents/cards for our own families and friends and presents for each other.
When we had DC and started hosting Christmas some years, i did feel like he continued to do what he always did (buy for his family and me) and I did everything extra (apart from washing up to be fair).

I did not mind it to start with (or probably even really notice it)because we both worked similar hours and I felt that overall we shared things pretty equally, playing on our strengths, and it just happened that christmas played to my strengths (shopping and food!).
However, i did really notice it after changes in our jobs meant I was working significantly longer hours than him (his hours reduced - he is now very part time- and mine increased).
What I found was that there was not any point in expecting him to know exactly what he needed to do without any input from me when i had been doing it for several years so I basically prepared handover notes one year to enable him to take over a lot of it from me from the following year

For example, when I did the online grocery order for Christmas food I prepared a shopping list for the "main" things that we would want every year we are at home for Christmas - turkey, ham, potatoes, carrots, Christmas pudding, wine etc. which could be used in later years
The handover notes then said

1. Keep an eye out for release of Christmas delivery slots and book slot.
2. Confirm who is coming to us and how long they will be staying
3. Use shopping list to place order (shopping list based on 8 people, adjust as needed)
4. Decide on starter and any extra puddings [list already contains Christmas pudding, ice cream and brandy butter ingredients other than brandy as we may have some]. Add ingredients to order (can be done after initial order up until cut off date)
5. Decide on a couple of left over recipes and add any extra ingredients to list [list already contains bread for turkey sandwiches]

6 Work out how many extra meals we need to cater for including breakfasts and add to list if necessary [ no need to go mad on how many days we order for upfront as shops will reopen but worth having at least a vague meal plan...]

etc etc

Christmas presents for DC was hardest. Main presents were always a joint decision, so it was more the stocking (we have always done a decent stocking as we make them wait until after lunch for main presents). So on the original handover notes I came up with something a bit formulaic (knowing I would invariably pick up a few things anyway if I saw something i knew they would like), eg:
book
CD or DVD
piece of jewellery
2-3 small items from their list
set of new knickers
PJs
favourite sweets/chocolates
stationery item
voucher
hobby related item
2 more surprises (things that you happen to see that you think they would love)

It was not even particularly painful to do as I did it as I went along. He used the notes religiously the first couple of years (asking me questions and testing out some of his thoughts). it is not the case that i ended up with nothing. eg we would go through it together periodically and work out what needed to be done. And I am still the main cook and he is still the main dishwasher. Essentially he got the message that someone actually needed to do the thinking and planning. Now things have rebalanced and we don't really use the list (and DC do some, eg DD1 like to chose and cook the starter). He does more of the planning but not all and we share the actual doing in a way that better fits with our working hours.

It sounds a bit control freaky reading it back (and i am really not a naturally organized person), but it kind of worked and was definitely worth it in the long run. He was also grateful as he was always happy to do more, just needed to be pointed in the right direction to get him started.

As for Christmas dinner, he wouldn’t have a clue where to start

he manages to hold down a reasonably responsible job, but can't google 'christmas dinner recipes'? I don't buy it. You were not born knowing how to roast sprouts either, were you.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland
He also seems to think mummy gets very little (and no stocking), while each year i carefully buy the silly things his family always have in stockings
Don't let this go on. There's over a week yet to Christmas Day, time to say 'I never get a stocking and this year I'd like you to do me one. Otherwise I'm giving up doing them at all'.

I get frustrated that he doesn’t think “hey, the kids need Christmas presents - what shall we get?”, etc.

Forgive me, OP, but didn’t you say the dc aren’t neurotypical and don’t realise it’s Christmas? Do they need presents? I mean, it’s nice to get them gifts, but is it a big deal?

It’s like my bil said to me on Saturday when we went to see my mil-in a home with dementia, absolutely no idea who we are. He said ‘It makes you feel better going to see her, but makes no difference to her’. Broke my heart, but he’s right. 😢

I think we need a Christmas version of this.

Instagrump That is brilliant.

OH does the christmas dinner, he forgets there are meals and treats either side of this gastronomic extravaganza. I shall be shopping for those this week. He gets decorations out of the loft, helps putting lights on the tree. Decorating takes me three half days because I like to clean all the windows and polish all the furniture that is going to be covered in decs. for a month.

Presents he buys the main present for three DCs, the others I buy, wrap and label. Christmas cards, he has no idea who gets them.

He does make the mince pies, my pastry efforts are inedible.

This division of labour did take many years to achieve, he learnt to cook in middle age and now enjoys it. I became bored with it many moons ago.

As I said in another thread, I told DH in November that he's responsible for all the thinking & planning this year. Last year I did all of that & don't want it to become a habit. Hopefully after this year he'll understand what 'hosting Christmas' involves, so that next year we can have a more equal division of labour.

Of course that does mean holding my tongue when I know he hasnt planned anything yet, let alone bought any food. He said this morning that 'he might look into ordering some stuff from m&s'. Im not sure if he has realised yet that m&s have stopped taking Christmas food orders, but I'm leaving it to him to figure out what to do.

Well unless you're catering for 20+ I'd just shop in store for party food or Christmas dinner ingredients from M&S.

They have just about everything in the catalogues, more flexible with pack sizes and it works out cheaper too. I'd just get there early on Monday or Tuesday and take my pick from the fully stocked shelves.

Alaimo I think that alternating Xmas is a brilliant idea! That way each spouse knows how to 'do' Xmas (albeit in their own way and the other has to abide by their decisions) and each spouse gets 'Xmas off' every other year to just enjoy the show.

Wish I'd thought of that 30 years ago. Except w/DH we'd be eating hot dogs off of paper plates on 'his' Xmases.🙄

One year my DH bought me a plastic pedal bin!

Same in our house. My DH is great generally - does the cooking, washing, ironing etc - but Christmas is all me. If I question leaving it to him his answer is that he isn’t that bothered and he probably wouldn’t buy anyone anything!! Before I was on the scene his parents got a box of chocolates between them every Christmas 🤦‍♀️

I’m with you! I buy and wrap all presents, write all cards, shop and cook food too. I plan and book all the events like Santa and Panto. He does involve himself to criticise how much I’ve spent(!) even though I work to a budget! I gave birth 3 weeks ago so I had to be ready extra early. I don’t mind too much though because I love Christmas but it does annoy me when I know he leaves the only gift he has to buy (for me) until last minute! 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

My husband is a really lovely bloke who is always asking ‘what can I do to help?’ The problem is that by the time I’ve told him what I’d like him to do, then showed him where things are and showed him how to do it, I might as well have done it myself anyway!

@Alaimo oh my goodness you are brave! I would be super stressing by now! Mostly because I know he’d be quite happy going without! I admire you handing over the reigns!

One year my then-boyfriend of a few months texted me on Christmas morning to ask if he could swing by and pick up the presents I had got for his child. I hadn't got her any... I'd never even met her. He not only expected me to do this for him, but assumed I'd bought and wrapped presents for a child I didn't know! He had not got her a single thing. He didn't get me anything either and I'm fuming I spent a lot of money on a nice pair of shoes for him, still get a bit peed off when I think about it, years later

YANBU but I've no idea where your friends have found these amazing Christmas orientated men!

Your husband is totally annoying and totally normal. They just don't "get it". They don't understand the time and effort that goes into present buying because they never do it.

I spend hours researching what I'm buying, where the best bargains are. I buy main presents and stocking fillers.
I shop online and in store over a period of weeks but he thinks I go into one shop one Saturday and BOOM! Job done!

My husband is interested in the food and drink shopping THAT'S it and I had to bollock him freestyle this morning for not getting his act together: when I do Christmas it's all organised, paid for, wrapped and stored by now but he decided he was in charge of proceedings AND now he doesn't think he hasn't saved enough for the presents (he offered to take this responsibility) so we've got nothing and Christmas is next week so I'm ready to string him up!

Never again. Never.

i think you and he are both being unreasonable. Him for failing to support you in your specific dream of a perfect family Christmas and you for considering all men behave similar. Each to their own though, our Christmas (4children, (2grown) ) , is coming along quite easily. I’ve done the Christmas shopping, I’ve done the “thought” for presents. I’ll fetch the turkey some time before the 23rd because it’ll have to defrost. The rest will literally come and go as the calendar turns