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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To tell XP DS wont be seeing him?

548 replies

Chaosdragon · 15/12/2019 21:29

Background.
XP was abusive. Mostly verbal and emotional, but occasionally physical. He has not seen DS1 for 7 years. DS is now 15. We would disagree about the reasons for this.
He would blame me 100%. I would blame us both.
Ultimately after 2 years in court indirect contact only was ordered which XP has not done until he started sporadically 12 months ago.

He wants to see DS. DS doesn't want to see him. I, his counsellor and the school all believe he is old enough to have his wishes respected. He can articulate the reasons he doesn't want to see his dad, and they are reasonable.

XP disagrees and says he cannot respect DSs wishes until he has spent some time in his company directly and DS articulate directly to him why he doesn't want to see him. If he is old enough to have his wishes respected, he is old enough to explain them directly to XP. If he isn't mature enough for this then he isn't mature enough to make the decision.

We last disagreed over this in September and since then I have heard nothing from him, until today.

I have received a message which says ...

"I intend to be at your house on 24th December. I will have stuff for DS. Arrange for him to be in my company for hour to see if we can sort things out. This isnt an unreasonable ask. If hes as mature as you say then I am confident he can manage it"

He sends me into a complete panic. And I have spent the last 2 hours trying to compose a reply and then redoing it because he makes me feel unreasonable and I end up either saying too much and it becomes and essay or it becomes too short and abrasive.

AIBU to just reply ....

Feel free to drop the presents off. DS will not be available to see you.

Any better suggestions?

OP posts:
DropOfffArtiste · 16/12/2019 19:46

Genuine question, why are you still engaging with him? The court order is clear. There is to be no direct contact.

Are there other reasons you need to keep in touch with him?

EvilPea · 16/12/2019 19:48

What a prize prick.
I second going out, you’ll be on edge all day waiting for the prick to turn up to play Father Christmas.
Your poor ds, he shouldn’t have to tell his dad face to face.

EvilPea · 16/12/2019 19:50

I’ve no legal knowledge at all, but is it worth getting your solicitor involved? Sending a letter reiterating the no direct contact and to stop harassing you and your son for contact

Original poster
Chaosdragon · 16/12/2019 19:52

I used to have him blocked but when he got in touch last year (via my mum) and we entered into correspondence he convinced me that I was part of the issue. The unless DS can see that I don't think hes a complete monster he will never even consider the idea of seeing him. That the best thing was for his number to be in my phone so that if DS ever wanted to contact him off his own bat he could. Its just now he uses it to tell me what to do. And tbh selfishly, i'd rather know when to panic because hes planning to do something idiotic rather than worry about it all the time.

I am an idiot. I should never have entertained talking to him in the first place. I end up justifying, defending and just falling apart because he will never ever be reasonable.

OP posts:
viques · 16/12/2019 19:54

Haven't read through the whole thread, but does DS want the presents? I know it's hard when you are young , and like stuff and don't understand that some gifts come with very large invisible gift tags that say " this present isn't about you, it's about me being an amazing person and showing off and making you feel beholden to me for spending my money on you once a year"

MushroomTree · 16/12/2019 19:58

@Chaosdragon I work in DV. Reply one final time stating he is not to come to your property and you will call the police if he does. Then block his number. If he turns up then call 999.

Your son needs you to protect him, not put him in a position where he has to fight a battle he will never win.

Indirect contact means just that.

If he was any kind of man or father he wouldn't be trying to back you or your son into a corner.

Original poster
Chaosdragon · 16/12/2019 19:59

No DS doesn't want them. He donated the last ones to a local charity via school.

OP posts:
DonaldTrumpsChopper · 16/12/2019 19:59

You're not an idiot at all, but he is still manipulating you.

He's not going to change. Just send the message repeating that you will not be answering the door, and block him.

I agree it would be a good idea to show the message to the police too.

achainisonlyasstrong · 16/12/2019 20:01

I would block contact if that is legal. No need for you or your son to be contacted by him. If your son thinks he is a monster, that’s because he prob is. Just say please do not come to our house. We do not want to see you. You can post presents. And block the number.

mbosnz · 16/12/2019 20:03

Oh dear. He's really done a number on you, hasn't he?

Can you draw strength from your son? You're very clear that he's made his choice with full capacity. His school and counsellor are backing this belief up. You, and these people, know your son. A hell of a lot better than this twat. His school and counsellor have no skin in this game, they are not biased - unless in the best interests of your son.

If your son decides he wants to talk to him later, I'm sure there will be a way (given that your son has free contact with XP's mother). But for now, he is quite clear, he wants no contact.

If he wants not to be thought a complete monster, he could try being respectful of this young man's choice at this time, and not continuing to be abusive to this young man's mother.

IdiotInDisguise · 16/12/2019 20:03

Tell him to stuff his gifts where the sun doesn’t shine, what kind of stupid gift will force a 16 year old to see a person he doesn’t want to see?

Honestly, you are right to be annoyed, you are right in every aspect but being right doesn’t equate being ok, have a nice day out on the 24 and be away of the house throughout the day. If you can’t, let DS go and spend the day with his friends.

BaolFan · 16/12/2019 20:04

One response back:

There is a court order in place which clearly sets out that contact between you and DS is indirect only. If you turn up at the house I will not answer the door to you and if you cause any kind of disturbance I will call the police. I am not entering into any further correspondence with you.

Then block. End of. You need to keep the promise you made to your DS.

IdiotInDisguise · 16/12/2019 20:06

I’m sure he will know by now that the police doesn’t intervene in civil matters like contact orders.

Original poster
Chaosdragon · 16/12/2019 20:06

The problem is he escalates and I worry where this can escalate to. We went through all this before and we felt like hostages in our own house.

He'd turn up randomly outside the school (before he was banned for being aggressive to the head)
He'd sit in his car outside - not on my land but on the street
He'd come for walks with his friends on the footpath outside the house.
He'd be at the activities he knew about.

I tried to report it to the police, but they said since he was in a public place and not approaching us there was nothing they could do.

OP posts:
oabiti · 16/12/2019 20:08

Sometimes op the simplest solutions are the best options, spend the 24 away from home.

Are you for real???

Original poster
Chaosdragon · 16/12/2019 20:11

I hate hate hate this. How can a stupid text message have me fall apart like this. I will not. Ill call a solicitor in the morning and see if I can have a letter sent out to him and will try and think of a reply to send to this which isnt 'Yey that solves the problem then. DS wants nothing to do with you or your stupid presents you abusive dickhead. Go away and stay away!'

Going to have a brew and some cake and calm down!

OP posts:
oabiti · 16/12/2019 20:13

DO NOT HIDE AWAY FROM HIM!!

Just respect your son's wishes. If he does not want to see him, he does to have to tell his father that, face-to-face. If his father is bothered about his son being manipulated (which, I doubt he is, btw), he can take it to court.

If he shows up, call the cops. Stick to the proper channels. You will get there.

Source: Experience.

ohwheniknow · 16/12/2019 20:14

He is a bog standard abusive man trying to control you and your son. He's continuing his abuse. His message to you is just an abusive man being abusive. Looking at it that way rather than as something you need to try and reason with might help.

He views your son as his property to control, that's the crux of this. You can't reason with him. He's interested in power not reason. Hence the language, hence the insistence, hence the disinterest in anything you say.

Did you ever do the Freedom Programme? Might help you regain confidence in yourself that he is just continuing his abuse and you've done nothing wrong. You can do the online version for a tenner I think or join a group course for free if there's one near you.

If I were going to reply I might simply send "no" and then block him. The more energy you put into replying to him the more powerful he'll feel. Although I do understand why you prefer having advance warning, is it causing you more issues than it's worth at this point? I assume you have a safety plan if he does turn up or kick off?

Maybe it's time, even if temporarily, you make sure you've covered all bases of what you do if he causes problems and then remove his access to you (and with it his power over you).

Waitingforadulthood · 16/12/2019 20:15

Would it be madness to suggest taking him up on his offer? Don't come (and make him aware that police involvement for harassment is an option) and let him Take the presents away. Ds doesn't want them surely? He's given an ultimatum. See me and get presents or don't see me and don't get presents. Easy- take the second option. Report him to the police for his continued harassment now. Escalate it should he turn up when he's not welcome

Mulledwineinajug · 16/12/2019 20:15

Definitely take this to the police, OP.

oabiti · 16/12/2019 20:18

*doesn't have to tell his father...

oabiti · 16/12/2019 20:19

You can't reason with the unreasonable.

ohwheniknow · 16/12/2019 20:20

I tried to report it to the police, but they said since he was in a public place and not approaching us there was nothing they could do.

How long ago was this? Because that's an horrifically inadequate response to clear cut domestic violence and stalking that could have exposed you to serious harm.

If he escalates again, call the police. Every single time. Use the words coercive control, harassment and stalking. Do not be fobbed off.

The law on coercive control came in nearly 4 years ago. Supposedly police forces have been improving training and responses in situations like you describe. It's irrelevant that he's stalking you and harrassing you in public places! No wonder you've ended up feeling you need to appease him to keep yourself safe.

You can also speak to Women's Aid for advice and the National Stalking Helpline may be good too. I found them really helpful, especially in dealing with the police (who were initially shit).

CallmeAngelina · 16/12/2019 20:30

What a charmer he is! "You will do this and you will do that."
He can fuck right off.

BaolFan · 16/12/2019 20:33

She's not asking the police to intervene in a civil matter - she's simply telling her Ex that if he causes any trouble then they will be called, because at that point it won't be a civil matter anymore.