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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To tell XP DS wont be seeing him?

548 replies

Chaosdragon · 15/12/2019 21:29

Background.
XP was abusive. Mostly verbal and emotional, but occasionally physical. He has not seen DS1 for 7 years. DS is now 15. We would disagree about the reasons for this.
He would blame me 100%. I would blame us both.
Ultimately after 2 years in court indirect contact only was ordered which XP has not done until he started sporadically 12 months ago.

He wants to see DS. DS doesn't want to see him. I, his counsellor and the school all believe he is old enough to have his wishes respected. He can articulate the reasons he doesn't want to see his dad, and they are reasonable.

XP disagrees and says he cannot respect DSs wishes until he has spent some time in his company directly and DS articulate directly to him why he doesn't want to see him. If he is old enough to have his wishes respected, he is old enough to explain them directly to XP. If he isn't mature enough for this then he isn't mature enough to make the decision.

We last disagreed over this in September and since then I have heard nothing from him, until today.

I have received a message which says ...

"I intend to be at your house on 24th December. I will have stuff for DS. Arrange for him to be in my company for hour to see if we can sort things out. This isnt an unreasonable ask. If hes as mature as you say then I am confident he can manage it"

He sends me into a complete panic. And I have spent the last 2 hours trying to compose a reply and then redoing it because he makes me feel unreasonable and I end up either saying too much and it becomes and essay or it becomes too short and abrasive.

AIBU to just reply ....

Feel free to drop the presents off. DS will not be available to see you.

Any better suggestions?

OP posts:
ptumbi · 16/12/2019 13:12

I kind of do think he needs to do this - said by someone who thinks all 'Fammiilllleeeee' should come first, I assume? Who watches the USA dramas where family fall out but ultimately get past their differences and at the end of the Programme, all hug it out? Hmm

It doesn't work like that. Not with bullies and abusers. NO ONE has to be forced to see, talk to (or justify not seeing ) their abuser. Or anyone! As a near adult, your DS doesn't have to see or talk to ANYONE he doesn't want to.

He should not be forced to Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain his feelings. He should just be believed and supported. Tell your Ex that it is non-negotiable. DS will not see him and will not defend himself against him.

My ds was ELEVEN when the divorce court took his feelings into account.

Panpastels · 16/12/2019 14:01

You're doing the right thing. Out of interest what does his mother say about it? or is it not discussed with her.

Mulledwineinajug · 16/12/2019 14:21

You and ds should be able to feel safe in your home and not on edge in case he turns up. Can you get a non molestation order to stop him from turning up demanding to see ds?

MyMajesty · 16/12/2019 15:02

Great reply, OP.

Lllot5 · 16/12/2019 15:15

I’d be worried that he’d turn up at his Mum’s what does she have to say about it ?

MulticolourTinselOnTheTree · 16/12/2019 15:15

The only note of caution ibwoukd add, is that he now knows you and DS are seeing his mum and when. Just be careful he's not hanging around to try and force a meeting.

PrettyPurse · 16/12/2019 15:38

As he now knows you're seeing his mother on Monday, do you think he'll show up there instead?

PrettyPurse · 16/12/2019 15:38

Sorry x posts!

IdiotInDisguise · 16/12/2019 15:56

I would remove the “we are seeing her on Monday” line, much better for the gift to be late than for him to latch to his mum on Monday if he knows you both are meeting on that day.

JollyAndBright · 16/12/2019 16:08

His interpretation is completely incorrect.

The Respondent mother shall make the children available for indirect contact only with the applicant father, limited to letters, cards and gifts.

This means he is ONLY allowed to contact DS indirectly and ONLY by letter, cards or gifts, he is not allowed any other form of contact.
You must facilitate this by receiving the the letters, cards or gifts and passing them on to your DS, that is all you have to do, and all SBEX is allowed to do.

He is continuing to attempt to manipulate you by, probably knowingly, falsely interpreting the order and using it to harass you.

Original poster
Chaosdragon · 16/12/2019 17:55

His mum is seeing him here so there is no possibility of him just turning up thankfully.

What does she have to say about all of this? Ha. She believes if there was any violence he must have been massively provoked. Hes a good boy after all. Its a very difficult situation for everyone, but mostly for XP who is missing out on a life with his son.

We don't talk about it because if we do we will fall out, and it will make stuff weird. It is good for DS to have a relationship with her and he cares for her and likes to see her so i just ignore the occasional woe is me comments

OP posts:
LadyMacbethWasMisunderstood · 16/12/2019 18:08

Actually it seems as though your DS’s contact is limited to indirect only. Which is unusual. But not unheard of. It’s a bit of a grey area as direct contact is not expressly forbidden - no criminal offence will be committed if you allow it. But the order is very carefully managing his father’s expectations for the future.

You are not unreasonable to remind him of the wording of the order and tell him DS doesn’t want to see him. I would state that you will pass on presents and cards and will facilitate direct contact on the future should your DS want it.

You have done great so far.

Idratherbeonquora · 16/12/2019 18:28

@sparepantsandtoothbrush
he sounds like he wants to patch things up

If he called the OP and said he knows that she doesnt want to see him but he wants to get back together and he deserves the chance to try to patch things up, even though the OP has no desire in seeing him again after am abusive relationship, he would be deemed as crazy.
Why is a relationship with a father any different from a relationship with a partner? The boy is 15 and needs his mum to help him stay strong and resist contact with an abuser.

The dad had his chance, he blew it and the consequence is his child doesnt want to see him. He is using gifts as an excuse to come to the poor childs home and demand a try at 'working things out'.
He has a right to refuse. And the op has a duty to her son, to care for his physical AND hos mental wellbeing.
Opening their home on xmas eve to someone the son doesnt want to see will be seen as a massove betrayal of trust by the OPs son and it will prove to him that not only does his dad not care about his feelings but his mum doesnt either.

If they both respect his wishes now then the boy might consider a relationshop when he is older, but if it is forced onto him he will resist and resent both parents. And rightly so.

If a friend abused the op and her son, there would be no chance of a meeting to work things out and put it behind them. But because he is a father (which makes it worse!) There is somehow some sort of right? I dont think so.

OP you dont have to allow him into your home. I would either go out on xmas eve or invite someone round to be there and text your ex something along the lines of
"I have spoken to ds and he has refused. You arent invited on xmas eve so okease dont come round. I will call you if he changes his mind"

Dont mention the presents because he is obviously using them as a bargaining chip. If he really wanted ds to have something he would send them without a visut and respect your sons wishes. I doubt he will though because people like him dont care about others just themselves.

Original poster
Chaosdragon · 16/12/2019 19:21

Well I have had a response ... sigh ....

I will attend your house on the 24th December. I will drop off some gifts and a letter. You will tell DS to speak to me himself. Given the length of time we have been apart this is a very small task for you. You should be capable of this. I will not come into your house. I will not talk to you. Under any circumstances. If DS wants the gifts he can take them from me otherwise I will leave with them. Nothing about that is unfair. What is unfair is DS having the power to decide whether to see his father when he is a child.

I just have no words

OP posts:
DonaldTrumpsChopper · 16/12/2019 19:25

Can you just block him?

averythinline · 16/12/2019 19:26

repeat - he is not to come to your house or you will call the police. then block.
do not get into discussion with him about anything - there is no need to

QueenofallIsee · 16/12/2019 19:27

It is staggering how clueless he is. You will do this indeed. I’d say ‘the only thing I WILL do is act in my sons best interest, as someone has to. Have some respect for your sons wishes. There will be no direct contact facilitated by me at the request of my son, and any visit to my home will be treated as harassment’

DonaldTrumpsChopper · 16/12/2019 19:28

"I repeat that it is not okay for you to come to the house. We will not answer the door. Please leave any presents with your mum, in accordance with the court order for indirect contact"

Then block his number.

HettySunshine · 16/12/2019 19:29

Can you and your son just go out for the day on Christmas Eve?

He is still exactly the same person he was when you were together 'you will send ds out...'. Bastard!

mbosnz · 16/12/2019 19:31

He's a dictatorial little bugger, isn't he?

And quite vicious too.

But that's easy. He comes, he knocks on the door. Whether you're out or in, the door does not get answered. He leaves with his presents. He has his answer.

Arrogant fucker.

DawgLover · 16/12/2019 19:35

Its just more attempts at bullying and control isnt it? Pathetic really once you realise he has no power over either of you.

My response would simply be:

I will do no such thing. It is not OK for you to come to the house - do not do so. If you wish to send gifts or a letter for DS you can do so via your mum. I will not discuss the matter further.

FizzyGreenWater · 16/12/2019 19:36

Honestly? I'd take that message to the police and ask if they could give you a bit of advice, explain there's an indirect contact order and that your son is afraid of him.

They'll take one look at that ridiculous little Hitler of a message and probably advise you on a wording which makes it clear that he's been told he's not welcome, and any visiting will be taken as harrassment and you'll call the police, as they have advised on reading his message. Oh and no, his son, with whom he has an INDIRECT contact order, will not be seeing him.

DawgLover · 16/12/2019 19:37

And I absolutely would not be answering the door to him.

Original poster
Chaosdragon · 16/12/2019 19:38

Im trying to laugh but really I just want to cry. Its never ending and so so draining. He disappears for a bit when I make a stand - easier to do over written word than in person -- then he just comes and back it all starts again.

OP posts:
Winterdaysarehere · 16/12/2019 19:40

Block him and repeat to the police. He has a court order and is blatantly ignoring it.
What a twat.