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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To tell XP DS wont be seeing him?

548 replies

Chaosdragon · 15/12/2019 21:29

Background.
XP was abusive. Mostly verbal and emotional, but occasionally physical. He has not seen DS1 for 7 years. DS is now 15. We would disagree about the reasons for this.
He would blame me 100%. I would blame us both.
Ultimately after 2 years in court indirect contact only was ordered which XP has not done until he started sporadically 12 months ago.

He wants to see DS. DS doesn't want to see him. I, his counsellor and the school all believe he is old enough to have his wishes respected. He can articulate the reasons he doesn't want to see his dad, and they are reasonable.

XP disagrees and says he cannot respect DSs wishes until he has spent some time in his company directly and DS articulate directly to him why he doesn't want to see him. If he is old enough to have his wishes respected, he is old enough to explain them directly to XP. If he isn't mature enough for this then he isn't mature enough to make the decision.

We last disagreed over this in September and since then I have heard nothing from him, until today.

I have received a message which says ...

"I intend to be at your house on 24th December. I will have stuff for DS. Arrange for him to be in my company for hour to see if we can sort things out. This isnt an unreasonable ask. If hes as mature as you say then I am confident he can manage it"

He sends me into a complete panic. And I have spent the last 2 hours trying to compose a reply and then redoing it because he makes me feel unreasonable and I end up either saying too much and it becomes and essay or it becomes too short and abrasive.

AIBU to just reply ....

Feel free to drop the presents off. DS will not be available to see you.

Any better suggestions?

OP posts:

Painedpleasure · 18/12/2019 01:41

I'd ask about a non- molestation order at the solicitors. Or something with a bit more weight to it

PrettyPurse · 18/12/2019 06:21

@Chaosdragon - you've not mentioned ds2 previously. Is ds2 not his?

Original poster

Chaosdragon · 18/12/2019 06:59

I'm planning on just ignoring him if he turns up with a back up plan of calling the police if he creates any type of disturbance.

It takes the police usually 14 mins to get here if I'm classed as an emergency and they come straight out so itll just be riding out whatever happens in that time if necessary. I'm confident he cant get in the house and it's highly unlikely he will even try to get past the dogs in any event.

OP posts:

Original poster

Chaosdragon · 18/12/2019 07:02

No DS2 has a different dad. He wont be here on Xmas eve anyway so at least he'll be spared from all the nonsense :(

OP posts:

MushroomTree · 18/12/2019 07:34

@FantasticButtocks great breakdown of that!

@Chaosdragon if you feel yourself wavering then keep reading Fantastics post. Ignore what he says and think about what he's really saying.

DropOfffArtiste · 18/12/2019 07:44

So sorry you are having to deal with this OP. Evidence that abuse doesn't stop when you leave.

Stay strong for yourself and DS and don't hesitate to call the police if you need to.

IWorkAtTheCheesecakeFactory · 18/12/2019 09:26

I'm planning on just ignoring him if he turns up with a back up plan of calling the police if he creates any type of disturbance.

Perfect!

GlitteryUnicornSparkles · 18/12/2019 17:26

How did your appointment with a solicitor go this afternoon?

Original poster

Chaosdragon · 18/12/2019 21:37

Ok. Im a bit disappointed by what she had to say, but only because she was ultimately saying you can't make XP be reasonable.

Can't get anything done other than send him a letter before 24th and they shut down on Friday for 2 weeks over Xmas anyway. Concern whether he will respond to me to any letter contents with the "reasonable" excuse that he couldn't contact solicitor.

The court order says indirect contact only. He is as bound as it by me, but he is trying to circumvent it because it doesn't specify "cannot have direct contact with DS".

All I can do if I want it to be clearer is to go for a Prohibited Steps Order but I would have to do mediation first. Doesn't think this is a case for mediation, but still have to have it signed off by the mediator.

Even if applied for PSO would only apply until DS is 16 (18 under exceptional circumstances and this wont be them) so not much point as still need plan for when court order expires.

All can do is ring police if he turns up. Depending on his behaviour will be how fast they respond and its possible he will be gone by the time they do, but at least it will be on record that they had to be called and so if we do go for PSO it gives backing as to why.

Has suggested whether DS would give permission for his counsellor to speak to XP to outline / reiterate DS stance and reasons it should be respected

If go to court likely to be a Section 7 report. Will take into account DS wishes and feelings but given it generally better for children to have contact with parents CAFCASS might wish to explore with him why he feels the way he does and what could be put in place to make him feel comfortable to talk to his dad or at least engage in the indirect contact.

I'm not sure what to do. If I want them to send a letter I need to let her know by tomorrow lunchtime.

OP posts:

MushroomTree · 18/12/2019 21:44

I wouldn't waste your time or money on a letter. It won't make a difference. He's already shown he has no respect for you or DS.

Have no further contact with him and call the police if he turns up. Call them anyway to report the situation so far.

I doubt DS's counsellor would want to put themselves in the awkward position of talking to your ex. And in any case, he won't listen to them either.

Just totally ignore him.

RandomMess · 18/12/2019 21:44

I wouldn't send the solicitor letter because I think your Ex absolutely knows it's supposed to be indirect conduct and he is trying to bully you into letting him have direct contact so

why spend the money
Letter shows him that it's rattled you.

DonaldTrumpsChopper · 18/12/2019 21:49

I'm a solicitor (not family law) and I actually wouldn't bother.

Just stick to your original plan and block him.

Original poster

Chaosdragon · 18/12/2019 21:58

Oh and I have spoken to the police for some advice also. They have said if he just turns up and sits in his car there is nothing they can do. In order for it to be harassment it needs to be a pattern of behaviour and the other stuff wont count due to time passed. If he turns up regularly and sits there then it would be a different matter. I obviously cannot ask him to move from public ground. They have however popped a note on the system so in the event of an "incident" it will be more of a priority than it would be under normal circumstances.

They said the best thing to do was to answer him if he comes to the door via a window so that he does not have the chance to barge in past me. Tell him I am happy to accept the gifts as per the court order, but DS will not be speaking to him. If he wishes to take the gifts away with him that is his choice and at that point if he doesnt just respond with here is the stuff or OK bye, to ask him to leave the premises and if he refuses, close the window and call them.

So at least I have a plan

OP posts:

MushroomTree · 18/12/2019 22:06

At least you've logged it with them.

I can't believe they've advised you to answer him via the window though. I'm concerned for your safety if you open the window to him.

Also, and I mean this kindly, do you trust yourself not to enter into a conversation with him or end up inviting him in if you talk via the window? You're going to have to be very strong and ensure you call 999 immediately if he doesn't leave.

IWorkAtTheCheesecakeFactory · 18/12/2019 22:10

Don’t do any of this. Leave him at the gates. Ignore ignore ignore.

Original poster

Chaosdragon · 18/12/2019 22:19

They did say I could just refuse to answer but I felt a bit like they thought was overreacting It was a bit he wants to bring presents and you dont want him on your property. I didnt do a great job of explaining that its not the present bringing but what that will lead to

No I probably wont be very great at not talking to him, although I wouldnt let him in I dont think anyway, but i would probably get embroiled in a discussion. I tend to ramble and over explain in life in general and definitely to him. I only really feel able to stand up to him via indirect methods.

So on that basis just not answering is probably better :)

OP posts:

MushroomTree · 18/12/2019 22:23

@Chaosdragon not answering at all is far better for you and DS.

You know it's not about the presents. And anyway, DS doesn't even want them.

The problem is if you keep entering into a dialogue with him it isn't harassment because you're having a conversation.

You've told him now that you want no further contact. Anything from him after that is harassment.

k1233 · 18/12/2019 22:24

Pleased you have spoken to the police and it's noted. Stand firm. If he shows up, ignore him. If he causes a ruckus, call the police.

Ginger1982 · 18/12/2019 22:36

"2. The court order says indirect contact only. He is as bound as it by me, but he is trying to circumvent it because it doesn't specify "cannot have direct contact with DS"."

As a solicitor myself, I don't get the point being made here. The court order says 'indirect contact only.' I would suggest that it is quite clear that he is entitled to 'indirect contact only.' That means no direct contact with your DS. I don't get his confusion about this. He is not entitled, by virtue of a court order, to anything other than 'indirect contact.'

IWorkAtTheCheesecakeFactory · 18/12/2019 22:41

I felt a bit like they thought was overreacting It was a bit he wants to bring presents and you dont want him on your property.

They don’t know him. You do.

No I probably wont be very great at not talking to him, although I wouldnt let him in I dont think anyway,

You do know. You make the decision and then you stick to it. Do you want to let him in? No. So will you let him in? No. So he doesn’t need to come through the gates. You don’t need to speak to him. DS doesn’t want the presents so there’s is nothing more to be said. He has heard what you have to say. That’s the end of it.

MyMajesty · 18/12/2019 23:23

court order says indirect contact only
Why should it need to say "not direct contact"?
That's what "indirect contact only" means.

Why should there be any attempts to engage with Ex? That's all been gone into already, and a decision made by the court.

It sounds like that solicitor is not really on the ball with your situation.

MyMajesty · 18/12/2019 23:28

I wouldnt let him in I dont think anyway
That sounds awful.
If you can't completely trust yourself not to let him in, while knowing it's the last thing DS wants and needs, you should definitely not engage with him at all.

Original poster

Chaosdragon · 18/12/2019 23:29

I dont think XP is confused. I think hes choosing to be deliberately obtuse. The solicitor is saying if I want to stop him doing that I need to go to court for the PSO as the onus is on me to enforce / vary the order if I dont like what hes doing. I can tell him he has to try and vary the order until the cows come home but if he ignores me I've still got this hassle.

She doesn't think we should engage with him as such shes saying if she writes the letter to him it gives him the opportunity to engage with her if that makes sense?

OP posts:

FantasticButtocks · 18/12/2019 23:29

court order says indirect contact only

For absolute clarity for him - the key word here is 'only'

It's really not complicated.

He is choosing to completely disregard what it means.

Original poster

Chaosdragon · 18/12/2019 23:32

cheesecake Fair point. Be the change I want to see and all that. Let me rephrase. No I wouldn't be very good at talking to him so I will neither talk to him or let him in!

OP posts:

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