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AIBU?

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Original poster

To tell XP DS wont be seeing him?

548 replies

Chaosdragon · 15/12/2019 21:29

Background.
XP was abusive. Mostly verbal and emotional, but occasionally physical. He has not seen DS1 for 7 years. DS is now 15. We would disagree about the reasons for this.
He would blame me 100%. I would blame us both.
Ultimately after 2 years in court indirect contact only was ordered which XP has not done until he started sporadically 12 months ago.

He wants to see DS. DS doesn't want to see him. I, his counsellor and the school all believe he is old enough to have his wishes respected. He can articulate the reasons he doesn't want to see his dad, and they are reasonable.

XP disagrees and says he cannot respect DSs wishes until he has spent some time in his company directly and DS articulate directly to him why he doesn't want to see him. If he is old enough to have his wishes respected, he is old enough to explain them directly to XP. If he isn't mature enough for this then he isn't mature enough to make the decision.

We last disagreed over this in September and since then I have heard nothing from him, until today.

I have received a message which says ...

"I intend to be at your house on 24th December. I will have stuff for DS. Arrange for him to be in my company for hour to see if we can sort things out. This isnt an unreasonable ask. If hes as mature as you say then I am confident he can manage it"

He sends me into a complete panic. And I have spent the last 2 hours trying to compose a reply and then redoing it because he makes me feel unreasonable and I end up either saying too much and it becomes and essay or it becomes too short and abrasive.

AIBU to just reply ....

Feel free to drop the presents off. DS will not be available to see you.

Any better suggestions?

OP posts:
madcatladyforever · 17/12/2019 13:14

"XP disagrees and says he cannot respect DSs wishes until he has spent some time in his company directly and DS articulate directly to him why he doesn't want to see him. If he is old enough to have his wishes respected, he is old enough to explain them directly to XP. If he isn't mature enough for this then he isn't mature enough to make the decision".

This is absolutely classic abuser speak. I heard this from my ex husband who the court decided was never fit to see our son until he was of age.

Basically it means I don't respect his decision at all and I'll tell him why he is wrong. Anyone who says this type of thing has not changed and does not deserve to see their child. Stay strong.

My ex used to say this to me too, basically we'll always be married unless I say it's over.

He's a sad lonely old man now with no friends and my son is 36 and still hates him because of his lousy abusive behaviour.

SandyY2K · 17/12/2019 13:18

I wonder why he's so insistent now...when he hasn't bothered for years.

Many abusers do this at the request of a new GF... There is nothing genuine or sincere or reasonable in his messages.

He's the same person he was. Keep him far away from the both of you.

MulticolourTinselOnTheTree · 17/12/2019 13:19

Have you called 101 and logged the texts and calls so far? You need to. This will escalate when he realises he doesn't have total control.

I also think escalation is a possibility, so please log everything, OP.

Many of us have experienced this kind of behaviour to some extent, which is why we urge you to remain strong for your son and not cave.

MushroomTree · 17/12/2019 13:21

@IWorkAtTheCheesecakeFactory I definitely don't think he's being truly nice or reasonable. But he used the classic abuser tactic of switching from threats to trying to sound like he's concerned. Hence the "you're clearly struggling right now" line.

He doesn't give a monkeys about OP or her DS. He just wants control back and if threats don't work he'll try something else.

yorkshirecountrylass · 17/12/2019 13:21

OP, you're doing a great job and just need to keep going. My family encouraged me to keep contact with a manipulative narcissist "father" in case my feelings changed. They did. I hated him even more and lost respect for them for not protecting me. You've told him no. Now it's up to you and your son what do YOU want to do? Staying at home, following your Christmas tradition. The possible cons to that are that he turns up in which case make sure doors are securely locked and barricaded. Go to an upstairs window, advise him he leaves the property immediately or you are phoning police. And do just that. Or, book yourself a hotel room and enjoy it in peace with the knowledge you're likely to have a barrage of calls. He's going to be a dick whichever you do, so take away his power and make him be a dick you can cope with on your terms. Also solicitors letter advising him to stop contact, follow it through. Men like this don't change, they just spend more time trying to convince you they have. Xx

ohwheniknow · 17/12/2019 13:32

Stop engaging. You won't "win".

That message was just a different kind of manipulative, nothing reasonable about it.

I really think you urgently need to do the Freedom Programme course.

ohwheniknow · 17/12/2019 13:33

He doesn't give a monkeys about OP or her DS. He just wants control back and if threats don't work he'll try something else.

Exactly this.

CornishMaid1 · 17/12/2019 13:57

Either ignore or go along the lines of

'The Court ordered indirect contact only so you are not allowed and will not be getting direct contact with DS. If you want direct contact with DS you need to apply to Court. Until then, you can pass any gifts for DS via your mother or [add in anyone else who will be a go-between] and I will pass them to DS. If you turn up at my house and/or try to get direct contact without a Court order first I will call the police.'

Drum2018 · 17/12/2019 14:22

His recent message was far from reasonable. It was patronising and manipulative. Do not take heed of his bullshit talk of shared parenting. He's completely deluded and must think you are a complete fool to even suggest such a thing to you. Contact women's aid or the police asap for advice on whether or not to reply, and if so then ask what to say. I'd say if you are to reply keep it calm and short. And then feel free to block him for good. Probably best his mother is out of the picture too as she will surely side with him and could try to manipulate your Ds too.

blueheaven97 · 17/12/2019 14:38

You have a week before Christmas Eve to prepare your house for when he shows up... ever seen Home Alone? Smile

In all seriousness, if it's possible he's going to show up and make a scene, perhaps you should think about having a camera installed ahead of Christmas Eve so that you have evidence of what's gone on? Also, given that you've already had to go to the police about him in the past, I'd consider going back to them ahead of Christmas Eve and showing them the messages and letting them know in advance that this guy is threatening to come to your home and break a court order despite being repeatedly asked not to.

At this stage I'd send him one more response, informing him that he already has your answer, that you'll call the police if he attempts to block the court order, and that you're now blocking him - and then I wouldn't respond to him ever again.

Winterdaysarehere · 17/12/2019 14:40

You threatened to block him. Do it. Then tell ds you will see a solicitor...
And see one.

LannieDuck · 17/12/2019 16:26

The Respondent mother shall make the children available for indirect contact only

I think that you're probably not allowed to facilitate direct contact under the terms of your order. If direct contact were allowed passively, it wouldn't say "indirect contact only". Seek guidance from your solicitor.

Starlight456 · 17/12/2019 16:47

Op . Expect lots of changes of tactics whilst he tries to get his own way.

He is also trying to get you to respond in a way that makes you respond unreasonably so can say told you so it’s you.

Ignore . Abusers are like toddlers in the sense any response is reinforcement. You are also to someone who has no interest in your answer only what he wants.

BlingLoving · 17/12/2019 16:55

I say again, he's making a mistake because he's still speaking to you and attempting to manipulate and bully you in the way I imagine he did when you were together? That works when you are trying to gain his approval / keep him sweet. But in this case, you have no need or desire for his approval or happiness. I suspect this type of message/behaviour worked for him in the past and he hasn't realised that your behaviour has changed. This line in particular: "Banning me from my sons house and calling the police. You need to encourage DS not be a barrier to contact" - this is him trying to make you the bad guy. If you cared what he thought of you, this MIGHT have an effect. But you don't. So.

Still irritating and difficult for you as much of this is learned behaviour (which is why even though you're not happy with the message, you don't instantly see how unreasonable it is vs the rest of us on the thread. But you're doing brilliantly because you're not immediately believing him).

I completely understand why people are telling you not to respond. But I think I'd be tempted to go back and say something like, "I am not going to force DS to speak to you if he doesn't want to. You can tell me I'm wrong but I'm not changing my mind." But, as Pp have said, I doubt it will get him to back off so it's probably pointless.

IdiotInDisguise · 17/12/2019 17:02

0h gawd, OP. This is bringing some memories. Please ignore him, and also ignore his mother, she may be having a bad time at the hands of her son as well. So don’t judge her too badly, there is a slight possibility that by staying away from you, she is actually ensuring the dad has not contact with DS through her.

The only thing I would say is that this will pass. I would investigate the possibility of getting a non molestation order. He doesn’t seem like a person who is going to give up. I don’t think he cares about his son either, it is all about control.

Clangus00 · 17/12/2019 17:28

”ignore his mother, she may be having a bad time at the hands of her son as well. So don’t judge her too badly, there is a slight possibility that by staying away from you, she is actually ensuring the dad has not contact with DS through her.”

That makes sense @IdiotInDisguise

CallmeAngelina · 17/12/2019 17:40

If you really think he would take a 'no response' as tacit permission, then I would reply,
"I am not having a difficult time in the slightest, apart from the tedium of having to keep spelling out to you in simple terms that DS does NOT want to see you. Furthermore, I do not need any 'helpful' tips on parenthood from you. Do not waste your time in attempting to visit."

Helpfullilly · 17/12/2019 18:05

He only says that by not continually disagreeing with him that you have agreed because it sets up a situation where you either feel you have to keep talking to him until he pressures you into agreeing (in which case he wins) or he does what he wanted anyway (in which case he wins).

No normal or reasonable person would think saying no and then ignoring subsequent messages was agreement. I doubt even he thinks it is, it is purely manipulation and an excuse to harass you. It’s to disguise (and not well) that he doesn’t and has never cared about what you or DS want. By continuing to read messages and engage with him you are allowing him to mess you and DS about. To emotionally and psychologically abuse you. Just think of all this stress he is causing and right before Christmas. It’s a calculated move to harm you and DS, to ruin something special for you. It is a wicked thing to do.

Unfortunately, he sounds a lot like my dad.

He might not be planning to show up at all or may decide on the day how he feels, because the actual point might just be to flex his muscles and to intimidate you both. To ruin something for you as now whatever happens you will be waiting for something awful to happen. It’s only ever about the sense of power these men get, and my dad would act up worse if he’d had a bad day or a situation that made him feel small. His life may just be not so great right now so he wants to hurt you so he feels in control again. You used to meet his need for that, after all.

He really has no empathy for you or care for your child. He actively wants to hurt you both but in a way where there will be no negative repercussions for him. A lot of abusive men are actually cowards.

This right now is a continuation of the abuse. You need to take steps to protect yourself and your child. I think if you don’t stand firm on this now then he is going to escalate. That’s why standing up to him via a solicitor and the police is to be encouraged. Please be proactive with this and get something done if you can so someone in authority tells him not to come and a plan for if he shows, because otherwise you will both be on edge and afraid on the 24th, you will give him all the power over you. It’s time to take the power away from him for good.

BlouseAndSkirt · 17/12/2019 18:22

I agree OP, his response was not reasonable.
It was manipulative, an attempt to guilt trip etc.
Ds going outside would break the court order.
You are not a barrier, Ds does not want contact with him.

Did you contact a solicitor?

Do not engage in texting.

Get a solicitor to write to him by e mail.

BlouseAndSkirt · 17/12/2019 18:25

And he is a lying dishonest weasel.
You would only be calling the police if he attempts to go beyond the order for indirect contact.

BlouseAndSkirt · 17/12/2019 18:29

And especially do not engage in any emotionally charged arguing-back texts. No sarky comments, all it will do is hook you into an emotionally charged exchange and give him a wider platform from which to make his psychological assault.

Get a solicitor to write a letter.

IWorkAtTheCheesecakeFactory · 17/12/2019 18:35

Honestly, I get why people are suggesting things to say to him but these responses will have NO effect on him. NO response will have any effect on him other than “yes you can see DS”. He is not interested in any of OPs ways of saying no to him. He is only interested in pushing and twisting and manipulating until he gets the response he is after. Any response OP gives other than that is a total waste of her energy and is keeping her in his web. She needs to totally disengage both emotionally and physically.

IAmNotAWitch · 17/12/2019 18:35

Do not reply.

Speak to your lawyer. Let the police know.

Stop engaging. You don't need to give this man any more headspace or time than you would a complete stranger threatening/harrassing you.

Your DS is the only one with rights here. You have the responsibility to keep him safe.

Sad about his mother, but she has made her choice so leave her to it.

whatsyaname · 17/12/2019 18:36

Can't you meet at a public spot like Costa coffee etc? Say you will ask DS to come, but if he doesn't want to see or is busy then it's his choice. Do you have someone else who can accompany you either way.

IWorkAtTheCheesecakeFactory · 17/12/2019 18:55

Can't you meet at a public spot like Costa coffee etc?

Confused what on Earth for?