To think that Turkeys Voted for Christmas?

[StormzysHat]

NC. This could appear goady but honestly it's a genuine confusion to me.

According to what we are led to believe by the media / some people on MN, "northerners" (as a generic group) voted for Conservatives because they are disadvantaged and fed up with the north south divide among other reasons.

How come disadvantaged Londoners voted Labour? I work in support sector and many people in my care will be in shelters this Christmas, and others rely on food banks. They were saddened and disheartened by Labour's loss and felt the Conservatives in no way represent them. This is on top of the Tory devised hostile environment and Windrush scandal making peoples' lives hell.

I understand that people are / have been pissed off and wanted to have their voices heard. But WHY would the very communities ravaged by the Tories in the 80's vote for them?

Why is it that Corbyn who lives in a very modest way, in Upper Holloway and who went to grammar school is seen as less acceptable than an old Etonian millionaire proven liar? How can Boris Jonson be seen as someone who can help the north south divide or to champion the working class FFS??

I completely accept Corbyn's leadership has been poor and don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan. BUT, given the alternative, I can't understand HOW working class people could vote for Johnson?

AIBU to think the turkeys just voted for Christmas?

I don't think the "free shit" as you call it fooled anyone.

OP ... and there you have it. You know yourself it wouldn't fool anyone. Why would you expect working class traditionally Labour voters to be fooled?

@SarahNade

"Like successful places like Sweden? Are you saying Capitalism is a success? Really? The UK or the western world, so to speak, has never actually experienced true socialism, so we don't know the effects. We do know, that capitalism does not work, and never works where ever it has been tried."

Eh? Of course we know the effects. Do you know anyone in a rush to emigrate to the likes of Bangladesh, N Korea or Nicaragua? I suggest that if you want a picture of the effects of socialism you watch "Chernobyl". The attitudes are chilling - and I know the series to be an accurate portrayal because I lived in Moscow in the eighties. Capitalism may not be perfect but it is head and shoulders above socialism.

People need to understand that a country and society are more than an abacus and a ledger.

@ferrier thats what I said. I don't think anyone did think it would happen / could be paid for. That didn't stop me voting for them as the best of a bad lot imo. The free stuff wasn't the important factor either way in my decision as there were more important things at stake for me.

@Spodge @SarahNade and others, I think the "debate" between capitalism vs socialism is far too simplistic and not accurate. The Nordic model (which I highly approve of) is in fact a form of Social Democracy. There are strong elements of socialism mixed with a free market economy. It is NOT conservatism, but it isn't straightforward socialism either. The politicians I admire towards the centre of the Labour party identify themselves as Social Democrats and that's where I think Labour should position itself.

StormzysHat you are right with that last statement. However, there are far too many who are still clinging onto the idea that the Labour manifesto was ‘centre left’ and not ‘far left’. The truth is that it simply was not perceived that way. My FIL - a lifelong Labour supporter and self-confessed lefty - thought it was far left and unworkable (particularly while still in the EU). It lost credibility.

The problem now is that the ‘further left’ membership of the party have a very firm grip on it. They won’t want to let go.

But if you cant believe them about their manifesto promises then you have no idea what they stand for.

@SarahNade You are in cloud cuckoo land if you think the majority of bosses don't work hard. There are only a few who can fund the billionaire lifestyle. And a lot of them have done it the hard way.
No country can afford to ignore their wealth creators as they are the ones, like it or not, who are employing, directly or indirectly, large swathes of the general population. So to be honest, if they didn't work all week long, just employed other people to do the work, that's fine because somehow or other they have got themselves in the position to be able to do that. Why cut off your nose to spite your face?

People they hire do the WORK for them, which earns the company profit. The company turns a profit, because of the WORK that people on the shop floor do. THAT, is where they get the money from.

So you want to make widgets. You want to build a factory to make widgets. Where do you get the money to do that?

You hire workers to make widgets. You haven't actually made any widgets yet, so where do you get the money to pay them?

Now you've got a warehouse full of lovely widgets made by the workers who work for you. Great. So now where is the money coming from to go on paying your workers, to expand your factory, to take on more workers, to hire people to design better widgets, so you can stay ahead of the competition?

@marysidney another lesson in economics.

Despite the fact we have killed a lot of our manufacturing base and rely heavily on a service based economy. @SarahNade

And if turkeys voted that would mean Norfolk having a disproportionaly huge effect in whether we have Christmas or not.

@MarySidney

You have little or no warehousing and adopt a just-in-time system so widgets are only produced when you have orders for widgets.

Money comes in the door, widgets go out. Sorted.

What happens when you get a bulk order for widgets and the widgets take hours to make? Then you need some stock.

You make shit loads of widgets

This is how Nissan operates

@thefluffysideofgrey but didn’t we already agree that our manufacturing base is not paying the bills anymore. It was destroyed in the 1980s. Of course some comes from there but the majority comes from outside. Did you see the house that someone from Hong Kong bought today after Labour was defeated. Can you imagine the tax bill. That will help a few people. And of course this is just one example. But you know what I mean.

No one particular sector is paying the bills. It's a combination of tourism, services, banking, manufacturing and others.

Manufacturing is around 9% of GDP which is higher than banking at 6.9%

It is not amazing to see such a poor grasp of economics, with particular reference to the economy of the UK and how business operate.

Now imagine someone knocking on the door of someone 30 years their senior who they assume is thick as fuck because working class, and doing these posts in a patronizing tone.

You hardly have to factor in them telling you JC isn't an IRA sympathizer that's all media myths when you literally remember him specifically praising the IRA at a time when British civilians were being killed by them, and ...sigh... all the other stuff.

In a lot of businesses, widgets go out the door and aren't paid for by the customer for three months (or more). So where does the money come from to make more widgets?

Generous donations from the international jet set, they do it all out of the goodness of their hearts!

@CharlottesPleb yip

Sweden being upheld as a model of success is a joke. Its one of the best examples of why a hard left government is a bad idea.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50339977

www.zerohedge.com/political/stockholm-elderly-residents-kicked-out-apartments-make-way-migrants

voiceofeurope.com/2019/10/sweden-is-headed-for-a-civil-war/

Sweden being upheld as a model of success is a joke. Its one of the best examples of why a hard left government is a bad idea.

😂😂
Like it’s worse than any hard right country - like Nazi Germany

t.co/na4Z8u1lre

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