To think that Turkeys Voted for Christmas?

[StormzysHat]

NC. This could appear goady but honestly it's a genuine confusion to me.

According to what we are led to believe by the media / some people on MN, "northerners" (as a generic group) voted for Conservatives because they are disadvantaged and fed up with the north south divide among other reasons.

How come disadvantaged Londoners voted Labour? I work in support sector and many people in my care will be in shelters this Christmas, and others rely on food banks. They were saddened and disheartened by Labour's loss and felt the Conservatives in no way represent them. This is on top of the Tory devised hostile environment and Windrush scandal making peoples' lives hell.

I understand that people are / have been pissed off and wanted to have their voices heard. But WHY would the very communities ravaged by the Tories in the 80's vote for them?

Why is it that Corbyn who lives in a very modest way, in Upper Holloway and who went to grammar school is seen as less acceptable than an old Etonian millionaire proven liar? How can Boris Jonson be seen as someone who can help the north south divide or to champion the working class FFS??

I completely accept Corbyn's leadership has been poor and don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan. BUT, given the alternative, I can't understand HOW working class people could vote for Johnson?

AIBU to think the turkeys just voted for Christmas?

It helps to see Boris in context.

He's well read in the classics and does take the lessons well. He knows full well that in order to appeal to the plebs (pun intended) that you need to put on a show, say the right things etc. He may even dole out a bit of bread and keep the aqueducts running.

What he will not do, is ensure that the bread is decent and regular. He also won't stop the rich houses up the hill siphoning off most of the water from the aqueduct- cos he went to school with them. He'll blame poor rainfall instead.

Bread & circuses.

He won't fulfill his promises because he knows he doesn't have to. If he's questioned on something he promised, he'll promise something else instead, and so it goes on...

@thefluffysideofgrey

Again, another with the hypothetical's of knowing what this government will or won't do.

When you try and paint what the OP is suggesting in a different way it doesn't make your point any more valid.

The only people who was fooled by the cult of personality are Corbyn supporters who are stuck in stage of calling everyone else wrong for no voting for him.

The best part indicator of future performance is past performance. Why do you expect him to change now?

I'm describing how he has acted and why. He sees himself as Caeser- whether it's Julius or Augustus remains to

It wasn’t just Brexit it was Corbyn, Momentum and his policies. Corbyn mostly. 43% cited him as the reason.

How obtuse do people have to be to ignore what’s wrong with the side that got so heavily defeated.

Labour got us so wrong when in many ways it was an open goal. They moved in the wrong direction towards a confetti of promises that came together to mean economic ineptitude.

Got it so wrong

BJ will give with one hand and this will be hailed in the right wing press and take with the other which won’t get a mention.

What the Tories don’t want us radical change in society to improve equality as this won’t benefit the rich. Ironically it seems like the rich London voted for radical changes and the poor areas outside London voted against it hence the phrase Turkeys voting for Christmas. The Turkeys have put their all in Brexit resolving all their problems.

I live in the North. The city I live in voted overwhelmingly for Labour, so at least we are not thick

Labour voters are a disgrace right now. They really are. It’s them that are turning people against Labour. Shameful

This is an excellent thread. I have always voted Labour in GEs (apart from once when I was in a LD/Con marginal) and vote LD in local elections because our councillors are good and to retain some balance on our local council.

I also voted Remain and believe Brexit will do unimaginable harm to our country. The NHS will continue to be privatised like boiling a frog.There will be no policy decision on this and no public debate, but more and more people will take out private healthcare insurance out of fear and desperation, and we will end up with a USA style system.

I would be very happy to be wrong about this. I am angry that the country appears to have voted against its own long/medium term interests, BUT I completely understand why people didn’t vote for Corbyn.

This time, I only voted Labour as a tactical vote against Johnson, and because I didn’t believe Corbyn could get a majority anyway. A Corbyn government would have been disastrous for our family - DSS goes to a small independent school because mainstream education could not/would not provide for his mild learning disability, and his future would be jeopardised if he had to go back into the system that failed him. I heard nothing about putting the state system right ahead of any changes to the independent system. I suspect our experience with this manifesto policy is replicated in other policy areas.

And with regard to the “are voters thick” question? Well, half of the population is of below average intelligence. All of us are suggestible - it’s a human trait - and none of us likes to admit we might have been duped. So it’s easy to see how we (all of us) may have been manipulated by the MSM and SM.

The question Labour needs to ask itself is why did people not want Corbyn even more than they didn’t want Johnson? Concluding that the electorate is thick and/or evil and working on that premise will destroy the party.

I am educated and a relatively high earner; I am happy to pay higher taxes in return for better public services; I’d rather fund a few benefit scroungers accidentally if it meant that the genuinely needy did not suffer: I self-identify as economically left-leaning and socially liberal. But I feel politically homeless.

He won't fulfill his promises because he knows he doesn't have to. If he's questioned on something he promised, he'll promise something else instead, and so it goes on

Which is why the country needs the next Leader of the Opposition to be capable of holding his feet to the fire. Corbyn was spectacularly bad at this.

A Cons government without a decent opposition is very worrying. Labour need to stop with the we didn’t move left story and get back towards the centre.

Honestly it's not hard to see why labour is now being coined the "nasty party" in the media and by the public.

It's not just the in fighting but the behaviour of its supporters. Hopefully it all quietens down, because we all want and need a credible opposition and all this behaviour is doing is damaging it further.

Right now it's recoverable, with the right leader, and a change of behaviour, policy explanations, a move to a less extreme position, stopping the abuse. But there comes a point, and we aren't far away from it when it won't be recoverable.

They need to stop harming themselves. Because right now they are seriously injured. Shortly it will be fatal.

He also won't stop the rich houses up the hill siphoning off most of the water from the aqueduct- cos he went to school with them. He'll blame poor rainfall instead

This shows perhaps the worst grasp of the world we live in/people/economics I have ever heard.

The rich provide the fucking water. They weren’t always rich, these people initially created companies and jobs: now their high amounts of tax support those with less and their companies and jobs prop up the economy almost entirely.

If you had an experiment where you had 100 people on an island living there, with nothing, some people would naturally be more industrious and create projects and opportunity for others. It’s ridiculous to act like everyone is just automatically rich through good luck, and laughable to suggest they are somehow “taking” from the poor! This isn’t Robin Hood!

Anyone else wish there was a Fuck Off option to vote on here?

@BeardedMum

Bingo! You get it.

It's all smoke and mirrors.

@crispysausagerolls. I have genuinely been thinking how the hell don’t some people understand this and understand that socialism doesn’t work.

You cannot help the poor if you alienate the rich. Don’t people get that. You need a balance because it is the rich that are feeding the poor through the taxes they are paying. So if you alienate the rich - then you cut off the hand that feeds us.

I really thought people understood that. And thankfully they came out in droves on Thursday because they understood socialism doesn’t work.

And the irony is it is those hard left calling everyone else thick (turkeys etc). If so then thank goodness for all the thick people because they have just saved the country.

@crispysausagerolls

The water is a natural resource. The aqueducts are built with the labour of the people.

What a small number of entrepreneurs (generally middle class) provided was technical knowledge in order for them to be built. The rich (and they are patricians- inherited wealth in most cases) provide the permission and sign off- and take the credit.

I think you're confusing the rich and the middle class. Most people never meet actual rich people so they think the middle class people are the rich.

Anyway, none of this excuses the rich people siphoning off the water so there is only a trickle when it reaches the plebs.

Boris knows all this.

Bluntess yep the reaction from Labour is the damaging part. Agree with all your post.

@BeardedMum no rich London did not vote Labour. London is complex. You have some areas that are rich that vote Tory. Some that are poor that vote Labour. And some that are rich enough to be sanctimonious and vote Labour - the champagne socialists - who would be the dictators in a socialist society taking all the wealth and telling the rest of us what to do.

The rich are feeding the poor with taxes?

What?

Where do you think they get the money to pay those taxes?

Almost make it sound like rich people are the only ones who do any work.

Why did they do it OP? Because BJ is the acceptable, cuddly face of the Conservative party something even your so-called savvy Londoners fell for when they elected him mayor of London and where he honed his act. Unfortunately, however deluded Momentum might be, JC is not the cuddly and acceptable face of anything. One would hope Labour have learned their lesson, but with JC’s refusal to budge it would appear not. As for this election being a vote of Brexit, the Tories might have won more seats but in terms of actual votes more people voted against them than with them. This is likely to be even more the case when they bring in proposed boundary changes which will almost certainly guarantee they stay in in any future election. But In answer to your OP - yes turkeys voting for Christmas.

@thefluffysideofgrey

I don’t even know where to begin with everything you are saying: it’s insane.

I am in the top 0.5% I know the people I am talking about, I know how hard they work, how much they give and what they do.

You are literally talking fucking bollocks.

@thefluffysideofgrey tell me where you think the rich are getting that money to pay the taxes? From the UK poor? Seriously?

They are getting it from international markets. Omg

@expo

Thank you for your post. I actually can’t even be bothered to engage with this level of ignorance. People need to pick up an economics textbook every once in a while.