To think that Turkeys Voted for Christmas?

[StormzysHat]

NC. This could appear goady but honestly it's a genuine confusion to me.

According to what we are led to believe by the media / some people on MN, "northerners" (as a generic group) voted for Conservatives because they are disadvantaged and fed up with the north south divide among other reasons.

How come disadvantaged Londoners voted Labour? I work in support sector and many people in my care will be in shelters this Christmas, and others rely on food banks. They were saddened and disheartened by Labour's loss and felt the Conservatives in no way represent them. This is on top of the Tory devised hostile environment and Windrush scandal making peoples' lives hell.

I understand that people are / have been pissed off and wanted to have their voices heard. But WHY would the very communities ravaged by the Tories in the 80's vote for them?

Why is it that Corbyn who lives in a very modest way, in Upper Holloway and who went to grammar school is seen as less acceptable than an old Etonian millionaire proven liar? How can Boris Jonson be seen as someone who can help the north south divide or to champion the working class FFS??

I completely accept Corbyn's leadership has been poor and don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan. BUT, given the alternative, I can't understand HOW working class people could vote for Johnson?

AIBU to think the turkeys just voted for Christmas?

I'm Northern, uneducated and still earn a six figure salary because I work hard, despite being a bit thick. I'm not going to vote for a party with a weak leader it's as simple as that. Get better and people will get behind you. Until then please stop with the bullying threads.

Someone mentioned Sedgefield, pages and pages ago. I used to live in that constituency and from what I've read from people canvassing there, this time around, many people there really don't like or trust Corbyn. There is a strong leave sentient there, too, though I'm a remainer and didn't trust Labour to speak for me on that issue any more than leavers trusted labour to take us out of the EU - all because of Corbyn's refusal to engage with the issue. He sat on the fence for so long that everyone felt it better to leave him there.

The big irony about Sedgefield was that the outgoing labour MP is pretty much at the opposite wing of the party to Corbyn. He worked for Blair before contesting his seat when Blair resigned.

I agree to some extent with your sentiment there @foaming. I am expecting a baby next year and feel incredibly sad they'll be born outside the EU.

I am expecting a baby next year and feel incredibly sad they'll be born outside the EU.

Your baby will still be born in Europe and therefore European, regardless of whether or not we are part of the organisation that is the EU.

And they've done it solely because they want to see Brexit delivered

No, they’ve done it because they were repulsed by Corbyn and didn’t believe in his team’s ability to provide what he promised.

Thanks @PrettyShiningPeople but I do know the difference between the continent of Europe and the EU

PickAChew
There is a strong leave sentient there, too, though I'm a remainer and didn't trust Labour to speak for me on that issue any more than leavers trusted labour to take us out of the EU - all because of Corbyn's refusal to engage with the issue. He sat on the fence for so long that everyone felt it better to leave him there.

One of the difficulties for the Labour party was that the majority of Labour voters wanted to remain, while the majority of Labour constituencies didn't. The majority of Tory voters and constituencies, on the other hand, wanted to leave. So what position could/should the Labour party have taken to keep both leave and remain voters on side? If they had adopted a pro Brexit stance, they would likely have alienated their remain voters. And not sure how much patience or appetite the electorate (or the EU) would have had for yet another version of the Withdrawal Agreement.

I think this kind of analysis of the vote is very telling, and reminiscent of the "analysis" we saw about brexit too.

Ie most people are outside our echo chamber so now we don't understand them at all and lose votes - let's make some stuff up that sounds vaguely plausible to us. These invisible people who don't speak to us for some reason are probably racist and thick, dont like the north south divide I did my dissertation on, love to kill the disabled etc.

@StormzysHat you epitomise Labour and everything that's wrong with it and hence it's utterly disastrous performance in the GE.

The irony won't be lost on many that you've come here and insulted people who don't agree with you, called them 'thick' in all but use of the actual word, wilfully ignored anyone trying to tell you why what you think is right for people isn't necessarily what they think is right for them, and then shot them down when they've tried to explain their thinking.

You could actually be the very embodiment of the current Labour Party.

*I'm a coal miner's daughter. I've voted Labour every single time - not this time. I'm who Boris spoke to in his speech this morning about my cross hovering over the ballot paper and my dad and grandad's disgust whispering in my ear when I put my cross on the Conservative MP.

I live in Northumberland - we were always LD but last election Conservatives got in and what she has done for my small town is huge - invested huge amounts into our local economy and has actually stood by her pledges - our town is thriving.

I'm still Labour in my heart - I could not vote for a leader who is so egotistical he's STILL ignoring what the people are clearly telling him - your mad policies (BB for all? banning private schools (way to go putting more demand on state schools, and not apologising for absolute disgusting way some Jewish MP's were bullied out of the party to mention a few) and the absolute lie that the NHS is up for sale. It's not. Any party who would promote that would be committing political suicide. The NHS is not under threat.

He absolutely needs to go immediately - only then can we have any hope of getting a credible leader of the labour party, not someone who JC has moulded into a version of his and mementos ideal.*

I posted this on a different thread but hopefully will explain to OP why.

I'm not 'thick', nor a turkey - I read Labour's manifesto which had promises such as:

Yes to self identification
Open borders and rights to welfare for any EU immigrant - and their family
Free prescriptions
free basic dental care
free education for all - for a lifetime
Free care for the elderly
Nationalising energy, water and abolishing the tv licence
Free parking for patient's, staff and visitors
We will create a million climate jobs
in every region and nation of the UK
We will bring rail, mail, water and energy
into public ownership

I think anyone who voted for that manifesto is deluded - we would be bankrupt within a couple of years and IMO that's why labour voters such as me turned Tory.

A lot of what's on that list is already happening in Scotland. And we pay more taxes to have it.

I’m northern and I voted Conservative. I also voted Leave and I didn’t agree with Labour’s plan to hold a second referendum. I was concerned how all this “free stuff” they promised would be paid for. I believe in working to better yourself if you can, not in dishing out free stuff. I think too much state control is a bad thing, I don’t want everything to be nationalised. DH’s employer was threatening redundancies if a Labour government forced him to downsize and start moving operations abroad to avoid tax and seizure of assets. I’m not in favour of open borders and welfare for immigrants, I think we should look after our needy British people first. And I’m not in favour of self ID if it erodes the rights of other groups. More than anything I distrusted JC and his socialist opinions.

I come from one of traditional labour strongholds that turned blue last week.

People don't like being patronised by Corbyn and his ilk. Corbyn would have destroyed the economy. Everyone would have ultimately been worse off.

Ironically the people I see on social media endorsing Corbyn are wealthy enough to afford his government. The average working person who struggles to make ends meet would not be able to.

People want optimism- he doesn't offer this. His rhetoric is angry and divisive- it pitches people against each other.

I am asking what it was about the Etonian millionaire liar which made him seem more representative of working class that a life long campaigner for equality from a much more modest background.

Because when when necessary he manages to look like a statesman.

It's a shame bevause they will realise too late that it was a bad idea. The thing i can't understand is that a lot of tory voters are such bad winners. All along labour voters voted labour because they wanted to make the uk better for everyone (and that includes tory voters). And tory voters are being just as masty to labour voters as before, even though they got what they wanted. I hope for theirs and everyone elses that lavour supporters are wrong, but I, very much doubt that. Just find it sad to think of some many people on poverty and how much worse it will get. But i got called names on here last time i said that. Its becoming a bad thing to care. I yhink you are right though, like in the usa with trumo, turkeys voting for Christmas.

woolie ok. I'll explain in simple words. Tory voters are human beings too. We are not any different to you. We care. You voting Labour does not make you better. The Labour manifesto was not what the main bulk of voters wanted. Understand now?

Midnightcircus. I didnt say you didnt, i said all the tories i have encountered have just gloated and laughed about the results as if it were a great personal victory over labour voters even though labour voters just wanted to help people. But you are kind of making my point by being rude to me.

The fact that some people continue to be stumped and shocked by the election result is exactly part of the reason for the election result.

(And why is there no smiley for an eye roll?)

It's also really patronising this view that if you are working class you must read and believe the Sun.

This is why labour are disliked at the moment. Middle class luvvies thinking they need to stand up for the stupid poor as they can't think for themselves. That's how it comes across. Watching the cringe worthy twitter posts from the likes of Lily Allen compounds this.

Labour could look to their own name for an answer.
People don’t want to live on hand outs and free stuff. They want to work, have the opportunity & self respect and dignity of a decent job. They want to be aspirational, to improve their life if they can. Yes including owning a decent sized house or sending their child to a private school. It may not happen for most, but people want that dream. Not everyone has Momentum’s visceral hatred of people who have succeeded.

And they understand value for money. Labour were simply not good value for money. Their manifesto would have bankrupted the UK.
Add that to Labour’s vacuum on Brexit and the fact that Boris has more charisma than JC, and you have your answer.

The Tories are seen as better with the economy. It was unfortunate that the banking crash happened under the last labour government as that is held up as being ' their fault' even though the chancellor at the time and Gordon Brown were praised by the IMF for their handling of the crisis.
This new government will have to start spending money now : this isn't what comes naturally to Conservatives generally so will be interesting to see if they do.
A recession is also forecast (as well as brexit) so let's see how many people then say ' it's labour that crashed it all'! Err.. they haven't been in power for years ..!
No governments are perfect and I hope that this one doesn't let down the poorer in society but I can't see how they can without spending money.
I'm no economist but the next year will be a test if they are better with the purse strings now austerity is supposed to be over..
I still think that the money won't get to the ones that need it, but I hope I'm wrong.

Remainder voted Tory and did not want to ruled by an delusional Labour government.

The patronising twaddle of the Labour voters on here is astonishing

People don’t necessarily want Brexit, just any end to this fucking deadlock!
A Tory majority was the only way to assure that.
So yes, the turkeys voted for Christmas!
At least it’s a faster end than continuing the lingering torture of the past three years!

I don’t think the Tories will be able to deliver on their promises to invest in businesses and infrastructure in their new Tory voting by constituencies. Brexit will to the Tories what the global recession was to Labour. Yes it’s true that outside of the UK, Gordon Brown is very respected for the way he handled the British economy at the time.

I also think the forces behind BJ and this election will want him to deliver to them and that is not compatible with what a large part of the voters now expect.

For some reason people think the Tories will suddenly start to deliver essentially the Labour manifesto. They want Scottish policies in the UK, but Scotland is not a Tory country.

The Tories are seen as better with the economy. It was unfortunate that the banking crash happened under the last labour government as that is held up as being ' their fault' even though the chancellor at the time and Gordon Brown were praised by the IMF for their handling of the crisis.

That was for bailing out the banks, they also realised that austerity was needed, which punches a whole in a lot of anti Tory posts as well. And the few who blame Labour for the crash (we could have tried to ride it better if we had been following the keynsian model often sighted) is countered by those who think it was Tories who bailed ou tthe banks and austerity is purely ideological.

The same IMF also praised Cameron gov for getting out defecit spend down to the manageable 2% .