To think that Turkeys Voted for Christmas?

[StormzysHat]

NC. This could appear goady but honestly it's a genuine confusion to me.

According to what we are led to believe by the media / some people on MN, "northerners" (as a generic group) voted for Conservatives because they are disadvantaged and fed up with the north south divide among other reasons.

How come disadvantaged Londoners voted Labour? I work in support sector and many people in my care will be in shelters this Christmas, and others rely on food banks. They were saddened and disheartened by Labour's loss and felt the Conservatives in no way represent them. This is on top of the Tory devised hostile environment and Windrush scandal making peoples' lives hell.

I understand that people are / have been pissed off and wanted to have their voices heard. But WHY would the very communities ravaged by the Tories in the 80's vote for them?

Why is it that Corbyn who lives in a very modest way, in Upper Holloway and who went to grammar school is seen as less acceptable than an old Etonian millionaire proven liar? How can Boris Jonson be seen as someone who can help the north south divide or to champion the working class FFS??

I completely accept Corbyn's leadership has been poor and don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan. BUT, given the alternative, I can't understand HOW working class people could vote for Johnson?

AIBU to think the turkeys just voted for Christmas?

I think this thread has been good. I’ve been educated on the reasons why certain areas voted the way they did. It’s been enlightening. I think most of the posters from both sides have been reasonable too.

Hi @trewser yes I did! And I posted a reply to you about it a while ago. Let me see if I can find it again

Glad to hear it @Tellmetruth4 If everyone just tries to be a bit understanding we get there in the end.

Sorry stormzy watching sports personality of the year and missed it!

No worries! Here it is again:

@trewser I have now read your suggested article by Janice Turner in the Times. I can see that the main points she makes are aligned with many of the points on this thread. So through this thread I am beginning to appreciate how some Conservative voters, in circumstances different to the working class voters in areas of high deprivation is London for example, could have come to see Corbyn's failures as more significant than Johnson's when weighing up their decision.

Her last paragraph was a bit odd I thought. She started talking about how Boris doesn't fit in the working class northern communities but didn't go any further into that point.

One thing I disagreed with in her article was labelling people lefty remoaners etc. I felt that was doing exactly what she criticised the Labour Party of doing.

I've just seen your update. I actually think you are unnecessarily rude and absolutely guilty of the things you've accused me of.

I think you have pointed out why self reflection is needed.

You tying yourself up in knots as not pretending to know what your 'Turkeys voting for Christmas' OP alluded to is why you are still in the anger stage of the grief process.

What we keep coming back to is that a lot of people simply did not want Corbyn.

I heard a member of the public questioned on their voting plans before the election. They described the choice as being between a Marxist and a buffoon. Their preference was for a buffoon.

One thing I disagreed with in her article was labelling people lefty remoaners etc. I felt that was doing exactly what she criticised the Labour Party of doing.

I agree with you on this, I'm a remainer, the terminology is wrong (ironic considering your OP), but it is based on Labour not listening to the safe seat heartlands that voted for brexit. It was brushed under the carpet when the metropolitan Labor supporters tried to paint brexit as a left v right issue, since then it has been demonisation of them just being thick and turkeys voting for christmas and some even hoping northern constituents suffer.

It is labour and it's vocal supporters who are out of touch, they have had many warnings, the thorny issue of promoting a life long eurosceptic into power also plays into it.

Labour has become a paternalistic socialism, it's a moral stand point rather than listen to what the workers are saying stand point, the workers abandoning labour after decades of voting for a red rosette on a donkey should be the final shot across the bow, it shouldn't be met with some kind of, lol stupid, turkeys voting for christmas response.

It is you who is wrong in this scenario, you need to work out why and how you can get the working class voting for you again, Corbyn, Momentum, Policies come up as the top 3 across the board. Blaming right wing MSM is a tired trope.

Interesting comparison @GnomeDePlume

Tory party had the backing of a multi million pound media campaign .........labour had a guy with too many principles. And leaflets.

People in general are thick........the way we're going elections will be reduced to something akin to the X factor. 💁🏻‍♀️

Tory party had the backing of a multi million pound media campaign .........labour had a guy with too many principles. And leaflets.

People in general are thick.......

I doubt you will understand the irony of this comment..

I will give you a hint, its you, labour have just lost strong holds that would have voted for a red rosette on donkey for decades.

Trying to pull some conspiracy instead of owning the shit you offered is why you could be facing another 10 years of Tory government.

The one who is out of sync and lacking critical thinking in this scenario is you, you can wait until you get a twitter post you can copy and paste as a reply, I don't mind.

Well that's my opinion.......you're fine to have yours. 💁🏻‍♀️

Not that I can see Boris lasting long. He's going to be under intense scrutiny now........as will his man tantrums and the way he treats women. He won't last five years........might even.put a bet on. 🤔

I wish I had your faith @foamingattheuterus.
However I’m very confident Boris is around to stay for a long time.
He lied about giving what was £350 million per week to the NHS if The UK voted leave.
Okay more fool people for falling for it.
He ignored a sick child in lying on the floor In A&E with pneumonia. Both incidents very quickly forgiven and forgotten.
Now if that was Corbyn he’d be hauled over the coals. One rule for one. A different rule for another.

Not that I can see Boris lasting long. He's going to be under intense scrutiny now........as will his man tantrums and the way he treats women. He won't last five years........might even.put a bet on. 🤔

You could have rebutted as to why Labour has faced the defeat they have, or that you tried to imply Con only won with because of some multi million campaign in a a conspiracy nut way.

You could offer some kind of self reflection, it's obvious you are another who is in the anger stage, it doesn't mean labour are not at fault.

We are on a thread of calling people thick who didn't vote the right way, your RG degree should highlight that trying to whatabout to boris isn't as intelligent as you like to make out.

@StormzysHat
you proved my point by not bothering to read. No doubt you did that with the Tory manifesto as well. Oh well, your ignorance, your loss.

Oh dear, you seem happy to remain ignorant and judgemental.

I would tell you how I voted but you wouldn't believe me as you have already made up your mind.

How long does the anger stage last, does anyone know? Only it's all getting a bit circular and tedious. For how long can you keep blaming the people and the free press for being everything that is wrong with democracy?

YA definitely NBU, OP!

I used that same expression, "turkeys have voted for Christmas" a couple of days ago when discussing the election result.

I simply don't understand why so many disadvantaged people voted for the Conservatives. One would think that they would have had enough of them by now, what with austerity, cuts to the police, cuts to social care, roll out of universal credit, removal of nursing bursaries etc etc!

No, the turkeys did NOT vote for Christmas. Such a statement is the epitome of ignorance and I despair at the simplistic lens that politics is viewed through by SOME people on here.

There have been so many comments of this ilk (which fortunately, are not replicated in my real world) that demonstrate how difficult some people find it to view ideologies from different and changeable perspectives and to appreciate how for every individual, there are different viewpoints to be taken into account when discussing how they voted.

Labour has mutated through the years, for eg, Blair's Labour wasn't far off the Tory government that we now have and has now moved far more the left which many do not like. People might like policies of both parties (for eg, I thought that the Labour idea of more social housing was a good one) BUT, knowing (from all of the independent fiscal studies) that there simply would not be the money to build them, made me think that they simply would not happen.

If people honestly can't see why Labour lost so emphatically, then do some reading - read about socialism and its effects and the effects on societies in the past who have lived under socialist ideologies. Listen to LABOUR MPS who have been in the news angrily denouncing their own leader. Listen to people who HAVE voted Labour in the past who all have their reasons for not doing so now - a friend of mine switched allegiances the day that Labour voted in tuition fees for example, another person I know stopped voting Labour a long time ago when Gordon Brown raided (in her words) the pension pots.

Some people voted Conservative not because they think they are the bees' knees, but because they saw them as the lesser of two evils. And of course, many did vote for Conservative, as they were offered a path towards Brexit and wanted to signal their anger that the referendum result was blocked so many times in parliament.

Appreciate that not everything is black and white in politics and actually, it is nearly always grey. I admire those who made the leap to vote Conservative from traditionally voting Labour; we now have a majority government with a plan to enact a democratic referendum instead of JC bleating on about getting a 'credible' deal that his party would then have voted against.

Finally, I actually did have a real problem with JC - his absolute inability to see how much he was disliked (by his own MPS and by traditional Labour voters) yet bumbled on without addressing this. A man capable of doing this (for whatever reason - arrogance? poor judgement? ) is one I certainly would not want to run the country.

Not that I can see Boris lasting long. He's going to be under intense scrutiny now........as will his man tantrums and the way he treats women. He won't last five years........might even.put a bet on

Really? I think he's got 10 years, easy.

Jesus fucking christ - another bloody turkey and christmas thread?!?!?!!??!? Give it up - the election had gone, the labour party were taken apart, now scrambling to blame each other . Give it a bloody rest!!!

I think @trewser is probably right about Boris having 10 years unfortunately. It would have to be an absolute landslide for Labour to get a majority next time round.

However, political careers do all end in failure, and he has the air of someone whose failure will be spectacular (one day)

Trewser, 10 years ?? He's the 3rd one we've had 😂😂😂

It won't last.

My thoughts.
Torys have promised to get brexit done.
Wanting brexit is almost a protest against the establishment. People don't believe or care that things will get worse,because things are already crap.
People don't want public ownership, it reminds them of the bad old days and strikes in the 70s.
A lot of people mistrust Jeremy corbyn because he didn't sing the national anthem that time. They think he is foolish, that his principles are an affectation. Socialism isn't property understood..it is mixed up with communism, which is definitely not wanted.
People don't trust labour with the money - they are widely beloved to have spent it all causing all the austerity.
The working classes who are doing alright aren't all that keen on other people getting benefits. When i've mentioned to several people that I believe In giving what you can and taking what you need, this is usually met with derision as people hate others who have no jobs but still have holidays, big tellys etc.
There's basically a lot of anger and vitriol around and it's definitely not just against labour. I don't think people have got a new found love of the tories either and I don't think they will.last.long in these areas if economic hardship continues. They've been voted in to do the brexit and that's it. Labour can get it back by getting out of London and being less middle class condescending.

But 14fortunatelynot a vote for the Conservatives amounted to, essentially, a vote for Brexit, which will lead to most people being worse off. I'm just puzzled as to why it's so important to the very people who stand to lose the most from it.

And I'm not in the angry stage. Or any stage........merely aghast that so many disadvantaged people have staked their future on the future of their children on this government who have caused so much suffering. And they've done it solely because they want to see Brexit delivered. I feel sorry for them.........it's just rather sad. I mean let's face it, ten years ago no one lay awake at night fuming over the fact we were part of the EU did they ? And if they did they weren't in their millions.

I hope when Brexit does finally get done it's worth it. 🙄