To think that Turkeys Voted for Christmas?

[StormzysHat]

NC. This could appear goady but honestly it's a genuine confusion to me.

According to what we are led to believe by the media / some people on MN, "northerners" (as a generic group) voted for Conservatives because they are disadvantaged and fed up with the north south divide among other reasons.

How come disadvantaged Londoners voted Labour? I work in support sector and many people in my care will be in shelters this Christmas, and others rely on food banks. They were saddened and disheartened by Labour's loss and felt the Conservatives in no way represent them. This is on top of the Tory devised hostile environment and Windrush scandal making peoples' lives hell.

I understand that people are / have been pissed off and wanted to have their voices heard. But WHY would the very communities ravaged by the Tories in the 80's vote for them?

Why is it that Corbyn who lives in a very modest way, in Upper Holloway and who went to grammar school is seen as less acceptable than an old Etonian millionaire proven liar? How can Boris Jonson be seen as someone who can help the north south divide or to champion the working class FFS??

I completely accept Corbyn's leadership has been poor and don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan. BUT, given the alternative, I can't understand HOW working class people could vote for Johnson?

AIBU to think the turkeys just voted for Christmas?

@TatianaLarina

That's the point. Boris doesn't have to do it - not his constituency, unlike TB. Boris' voter demographic in his constituency in Uxbridge probably is not so centred on working men's clubs (no intended to be sneery, just factual). Overwhelmingly though the new Tory MPs elected in the northern constituencies were actually local. So they didn't just need to be seen to be local like TB, they were!

No-one seems too concerned about Boris de Pfeffel Johnson’s appearance in working men’s clubs

Uh??

It is pointless telling them they are thick because they don't think they are. That's why I haven't taken that stance. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Was they always thick but you ignored them because the voted Labour, or did they just turn thick when they voted differently, @DownstairsMixUp?

Either way, doesn't say much about Labour's manifesto or you to be honest..

YABU OP to use the extraordinarily over used "turkeys voting for Christmas" cliche. I have heard that fucking fucker so much over the last three years it just grates now.

@BoneyBackJefferson you proved my point by not bothering to read. No doubt you did that with the Tory manifesto as well. Oh well, your ignorance, your loss.

At last @snowyracoon! I thought you'd all left the building!

Read the full thread @justanotherlurker. I've in no way told anyone how to vote and have merely asked questions throughout. Others have been on here mudslinging- from both sides I might add- but I have avoided this.

you proved my point by not bothering to read. No doubt you did that with the Tory manifesto as well. Oh well, your ignorance, your loss.

OK, you are a troll, you have hooked both sides so I will give you that.

Well done, I am not going to report the thread as it should stay.

Agree with your post @bluewonder

@thetoddleratemyhomework ok yeah, that makes sense

1. Tories promised to deliver Brexit
2. Tories have promised to spend more money reviving old rail links to benefit the north
3. Tories have promised high street funding for towns to boost shops and business.
4. Labour would raise tax on small businesses.

Amongst others.

You are not being unreasonable. I saw an interview with some people who voted Tory saying they voted fur change because their town was so run down. Which Party do they think has been in power for the last 9 years?

@justanotherlurker for what reason would you report this thread? Just because it contains opinions you don't like? I am reminding you that from the outset I have never, not once accused anyone of being stupid (even though you did exactly that a couple of posts ago). The only thing I've said that could have possibly offended people is the choice of the expression "turkeys voting for Xmas" for which I've already acknowledged and apologised and suggested to swap to Christmas trees instead. If you'd actually followed you'd have read that bit of the conversation. As had been pointed out by another poster my understanding of this phrase is that the turkeys are in ignorance of what is to come because they've been tricked and not because they are stupid. Aside from that sentence, I have asked questions and expressed opinions and sought to understand. I have also asked others not to use insults and unhelpful stereotypes. Meanwhile you have simply dug your heels in throughout and insulted people.

StormzysHat
Clavinova can firmly I point out that "ethnic minorities in London" and "British" are not usually two different things.

You can, but I think you are taking political correctness a step too far.

What I posted;
"Removing university tuition fees - would mainly benefit the middle classes plus ethnic minorities in London - disadvantaged, white British pupils are less likely to go on to further education." ...

The Guardian don't specify the 'Britishness' of their ethnic minority students either;

"The analysis found that of all applications to higher education by this demographic [poorer white students] only 22% were accepted. More than 50% of universities accepted fewer than 20% of the applications received from these students."

"London has fewer areas with low participation in higher education and a high number of black and ethnic minority students."

“White British disadvantaged boys are the least likely of any large ethnic group to go to university."
www.theguardian.com/education/2019/feb/14/half-of-universities-england-have-fewer-than-5-poor-white-students

Neither does the BBC;
"Almost three quarters of university students from London will be from ethnic minorities by the end of the next decade, say researchers."

"Londoners have high rates of university entry..."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-45576261

'London' was being discussed immediately before my post of course; "Nandy...bleats on about ‘London’ as though the people of London have been actively crushing the people of Wigan."

I've in no way told anyone how to vote and have merely asked questions throughout. Others have been on here mudslinging- from both sides I might add- but I have avoided this.

Haha, your OP is that anyone voting Tory is Turkeys voting for christmas.

You are not very enlightened as you think you are if you cannot see the responses.

I mean I could go down the route that you are pissed off that you are not getting free shit promised by Corbyn so you are bitter, I could go down the route that you thinking you larping as working class and know whats better for them is why Labour suffered the largest defeat in decades.

Instead it is just bait, if its not then it's so devoid of intelligence it's just worthy of pity and say you will get to the acceptance stage soon.

The 5 stages of grief is well documented by now, but it does require some self reflection which will seem hard at this point in the cycle.

I will point out the other posters who agree with you though.

@StormzysHat

It is a bit unfortunate about the title, but I agree that your intentions are good and believe that you are genuinely trying to understand the reason for JC's loss - if the labour leadership could do this ASAP with as open a mind as possible, we would hopefully get a labour PM next time!

Justanotherlurker
Places where BXP was in show, labour dropped BXP gained a comparable amount.

It's all in the voter breakdown.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14000915

Your link is for the Sedgefield constituency results and does not support your argument that Labour vote losses were matched by Brexit Party gains. It looks like the Labour vote share loss of -17.1 in Sedgefield was pretty much evenly balanced out by the Tory and Brexit Party vote share gains of +8.4 and +8.5 respectively. (That's putting to one side very modest vote share gains from Remain supporting parties in a predominantly Leave constituency).

IFS:
"Labour’s policies do not come close to being enough to deliver on their pledge to end in work poverty within a single parliament."

"Their proposed benefit changes by themselves might reduce in work poverty from 18% of people in working households to 16%. Even their radical minimum wage policies would make remarkably little difference."

"Only about 10% of the extra cash paid to low earners would go to workers in poverty."

"Labour’s decision to spend £58 billion compensating the so called WASPI women is all the more extraordinary."

"While many were not aware their state pension age was rising, and some have clearly suffered hardship as a result, the decision was taken at least 15 years before the increase in pension age and most in the group are relatively well off."

Just because it contains opinions you don't like?

Don't flatter yourself, it's because your OP is bait. It's ironic pointing out opinions some don't like considering your OP.

I am reminding you that from the outset I have never, not once accused anyone of being stupid (even though you did exactly that a couple of posts ago)

So we have to go through a nuanced semantic argument as to why your thread title... it's boring everyone knows where you was heading and so do you.

The rest of your drivel points to your obvious intelligence as to why you have no understanding why someone could vote differently, it requires nuance of thinking, ironically something that you are pretending others not voting the same way as you are lacking.

Haha, your OP is that anyone voting Tory is Turkeys voting for christmas.

So, as I said in my OP, this is how it came across to me. I was staggered as to why someone in the communities being discussed would vote Tory and asked a genuine question as to why. There's nothing wrong with doing that. You didn't have to comment if this thread so offends you.

You are not very enlightened as you think you are if you cannot see the responses.
What does this sentence mean? I can see the responses. I have engaged with many of them and had some interesting discussion. I don't think I've never said I'm enlightened.

I mean I could go down the route that you are pissed off that you are not getting free shit promised by Corbyn so you are bitter,
Like most Labour voters, my reasons for voting were because I thought this was the least worst option for the country. Im entitled to that view. I don't think the "free shit" as you call it fooled anyone.

I could go down the route that you thinking you larping as working class and know whats better for them is why Labour suffered the largest defeat in decades. ah so there's no way I could possibly be working class myself then? No? I forgot, Londoners are not proper working class.

Thanks @thetoddleratemyhomework appreciate that. Yes I've apologised for the insensitivity of the title. And I am genuinely wanting to understand what's actually happened here for what it's worth.

Wow @justanotherlurker I've just seen your update. I actually think you are unnecessarily rude and absolutely guilty of the things you've accused me of. This is not a healthy way to have a debate. I'm trying to find out genuine views and what went wrong for Labour as it's not something that is being talked about openly and honestly imo and all you are doing is posting scathing remarks, accusing people of being unintelligent and saying they are writing 'drivel' etc. It honestly reads like an unpleasant drunken rant and it's not the tone I've used towards anyone on here at all. I'm therefore not going to engage with you any further.

You have nothing to apologise for, OP. Turkeys voting for Christmas simply means voting against your own interest. That's all. The 'snowflakes' (to use their vernacular) are simply latching onto it opportunistically to attack you. You've said nothing wrong. Pay no attention to their feigned outrage.

Lurker hasn’t been unnecessarily rude at all Stormzy.

This thread that you started is unnecessarily rude so Lurker is just responding in kind, as you very well know. Spare us your faux offence, you are clearly deliberately goady.

Did you read the article I linked to OP? Honestly it's really worth a read.