AIBU that an independent Scotland ill have to have a hard border to ensure the rest of the UK keeps control of its borders when Scotland joins theEU

[monstiebags]

Whilst I totally agree that Scotland has the right to become independent, it seems to me that they want to push though a vote without telling the people how they expect to fund themselves, what currency they will use and what trading agreement they expect to have with the UK. I really think that these things should be made clear to the rest of the UK before they are allowed their rightful vote - A weak Scotland using our currency could drag us all down with them and a soft border would encourage the continued uncontrolled migration to England via Scotland. AIBU

Again, that's all in the context of us being a stable economic power.

I'm against independence. I dont think Scotland will survive it. We certainly wont have a stable economy and we wont have a place on the world stage when it comes to finances.
And this is exactly my point.

We need to negotiate a currency union to help stabilise our economy. The UK will not agree to a currency union. We will end up keeping the pound, whilst having no union in place, signalling disaster for our finances.

What you said was that it is illegal for us to keep using sterling. That was incorrect. That is what I'm arguing against. But you still wont admit it.

It would be irresponsible of us to keep using sterling. It would be pretty disastrous. But we can do it. Its bot illegal and we dont NEED to negotiate.

Do you understand now? Or do you want to keep quoting things out of context to back up you "illegal" theory?

No independence No No No

Yeah, still nothing suggesting illegality though.

Or really, even suggesting we 'can' t'. Just that we probably don't have the resources to be a (hmm sounds like that says lender, but I suspect it means borrower). That's hardly the same thing.

She'll be away googling for more quotes saying Scotland shouldn't keep using sterling, and she reads them as "cant keep using sterling".

Shouldn't/ill advised/bad idea/disaster/economic suicide < those are all terms I would use to describe scotland using sterling without a currency union.

But there's no "cant" about it. And certainly nothing illegal.

You can "buy" currency from any currency exchange. That is the simplest way I can explain it. You can buy Euro and dollars and pounds and it is up to shops and businesses if they accept it.
This is what you are proposing. You will "buy" British pounds at whatever rates we are selling them. We don't print loads of them so they will cost more / be worth more if they are in demand, so you risk paying alot for the privilege of using them.
Without your own currency / reserves banks will not base themselves in Scotland (even the Royal Bank of Scotland have said they would have to leave) and you would struggle to borrow.
But go ahead.. The revenue from selling you Sterling to you will make us rich!! 😂

“ The SNP share of the vote actually FELL in this election, from 50% to 45%.”

This is a lie which has been stated multiple times now. The SNP vote share increased from 36.9% in 2017 to 45% on Thursday.

Labour in Scotland are on the verge of backing independence.
In Scottish elections and referendums we allow 16&17 year olds to vote, and also EU citizens. That 45% would then be more like 50% like the recent polling trend on independence itself.

Unionists are doing everything the can to argue against another referendum because they really fear they will lose.

@Harpingon

I'm not disagreeing with you that it would be a terrible idea. I've said that more than once.

But you said it would be illegal. That's why I picked up this debate with you. Where are you getting the information that it would be illegal? You've ignored all questions about that, and that's the only point of yours I disagree with.

Jeezypeeps "the world wont act as a lender" it means your credit rating would be near to zero. Joining the other countries in the world who have debts and no currency....... I think someone quoted Zimbabwe, who have exactly this set up.

I think the OP sums up why many scots want independence; their unquestionable attitude that England is boss.

“ There is also the Hong Kong option of a Scottish Pound that shadows Sterling in value, similar to the old Irish Punt. But for that, you will need reserves and some standing on the global bond markets.”

Why wouldn’t an independent Scotland have reserves and standing on global bond markets?

Yeah, it just wasn't a clear comment, the 'it' could have applied equally to Scotland or the rest of the world. I understood what it meant, it just needed to be clearer.

Still not illegal.

Streetwise Hercules, you have no idea what you're talking about. Oh fine we'll just have a new currency and start our own central bank. Oh we won't be short of money because the UK will give us billions of pounds to start us off. It'll all be fine.

Absolute nonsense. Haven't the last few years of watching Brexit negotiations taught you anything? And that's not anything like as hard as disentangling from all our shared institutions, currency, defence, etc etc and setting up a new state. The SNP white paper in 2014 was full of misleading figures and wishful thinking. So irresponsible.

It's interesting that you assume that because you said something completely false, and we are telling you that it's completely false (you haven't yet admitted you were wrong, but it's clear), that we all think it's a great idea to do it.

That's a huge and false assumption.

Lulualla, Ecuador tried using the dollar as its currency and was quickly and forcefully told by the USA it was illegal. You will have no currency.

I lived in Scotland on the west coast and Glasgow in particular would not survive, poverty is high enough as it is.

I really don't want them to leave the union for the sake of Scotland but they are being fed loads of rubbish.

However, I now live in England and there is no appetite for appeasing the Scottish any more. We already see them as getting far more out of the system than us. So if Scotland wants to go I think we won't stand in their way it next time.

Streetwise, an independent scotland is a very weak prospect. Starting everything from the ground up as an untested state. In the global market, we dont have a leg to stand on. Not initially. And we dont have the finances to kick start an independent country

@Harpingon

Ecuador use the dollar. It's their main currency. They gain it through trade etc. They cant print it themselves, but it is their main currency. Unless I've missed some spectacular news on that.

Outsourcing control of your money supply (and thus your monetary policy) to another country actually isn’t all that unusual. In fact, 25 countries (including North Korea) currently tie their economies in whole or in part to the U.S. dollar. One of the odd aspects of the impending vote in Scotland on whether to declare independence from Britain is that the rupture would leave the new country’s monetary policy under the control of the Bank of England. The Euro – which the British refused to join for exactly this reason – represents a large-scale outsourcing of monetary policy by a number of independent states to a new collective institution. This has come in for criticism in light of the European Union’s poor performance in the Great Recession as an abject lesson that you can’t successfully create a monetary union without creating a political union to oversee it. Abkhazia and South Ossetia, the portions of Georgia seized by Russia a decade ago, had this problem solved for them by using the ruble and letting Russian President Vladimir Putin dictate its value along with everything else.

Ecuador crashed 20 years ago. Their economy was a mess. Individuals started changing all their assets into dollars, just to protect them. The couple tell unofficially starting using the dollar. Then the government just followed suit and signed it in as their official currency. It's still the official currency today.

Or have I completely missed something?

Lulualla you do realise that proves my point?

Lulualla are you now saying that you will adopt the Euro as your currency? ????

Which point? That is illegal to do it? So how is it still happening 20 years later?

Harpingon, where on earth did Lulualla say that?

@Harpingon

No. Comparing Scotland using sterling to the EU member states using the euro is not the same as saying Scotland will use the Euro.

What that statement says is that scotland could follow many other counties by using a currency which isn't "theirs" and allowing another country to control monetary policy. Which is similarly to the Euro. It's a comparison. Why do you think it says Scotland will use the euro?

And what proves your point. You're saying its illegal. Everything up there says it's not. How does that prove your point?

Argh!!! Ecuador illegally prints USD. it is deemed fake and not legal tender (google Ecuador printing dollars) the buy dollar from America for trade etc. Scotland can't print bl**dy pound notes!! Argh!!

Do you think not being able to print the currency means its illegal to use it as your official currency? Because that's not right.

Quite a number of counties cannot print their official currency. It's their official currency. They can use it. Nothing illegal about it.

You really dont seem to understand so you should just stop digging.