AIBU that an independent Scotland ill have to have a hard border to ensure the rest of the UK keeps control of its borders when Scotland joins theEU

[monstiebags]

Whilst I totally agree that Scotland has the right to become independent, it seems to me that they want to push though a vote without telling the people how they expect to fund themselves, what currency they will use and what trading agreement they expect to have with the UK. I really think that these things should be made clear to the rest of the UK before they are allowed their rightful vote - A weak Scotland using our currency could drag us all down with them and a soft border would encourage the continued uncontrolled migration to England via Scotland. AIBU

Boris saying no doesn't mean anything as we can now hold advisory referendums and force them through as the will of the people. He set that precedent, it might sound childish, but that's the level of Westminster government we're dealing with.

@LetsSplashMummy rubbish. If sturgeon tried that, people who don't want independance would simply not engage in such an exercise and it would be shot down in the courts - legal snp experts such as Joanna cherry will be well aware of this so get real.

Isn't that what Hadrian's Wall is for? 😁

I certainly hope we'll be having a hard border.

the pound sterling is officially UK currency not English money.

But if the Scots choose independence, they won't be in the UK any more, will they?

Sterling currency in the UK is regulated by the Bank of England. An independent Scotland may use a currency which they call sterling, but they will have to set up their own institution for issuing and regulating it. It will no longer be the same as that issued by the B of E.

And they will have to make decisions about whether to have a fixed exchange rate, or whether to let it float, in which case the markets will soon decide whether they think the Scottish £ is worth the same as the English £.

Why should Scotland have to provide all of that information when the British government didn’t provide the equivalent Brexit information?

Was thinking this myself. 😅

will scotland take on its share of the national debt ?

I see no issue with taking the euro. Ireland has the euro and NI doesn’t, seems to work ok. We might need to get a central bank- ok, so we’ll have to do that. It’s not impossible for countries to become independent, it has happened before. It might not be easy and questions should rightly be answered before Indy ref 2, but that doesn’t mean independence can’t happen.

@monstiebags

Can you explain the issue you have with MPs from Scotland? Do you feel the same about MPs from Wales or northern Ireland?

The Scottish MPs sitting in parliament are there for the same reason as all the others. To debate and vote on matters concerning the UK. So they need to be there.

The devolved powers, so things which only affect scotland, are debated and voted on by our Scottish parliament. The two have nothing to do with each other. If you kick out Scottish, Welsh and Irish MPs from parliament then you'd have only English MPs voting on policy which affects everyone UK wide.

If England want a separate parliament for things just for them then that's a separate issue. Kicking out Scottish MPs from the current parliament wont stop the Welsh and Northern Irish from being there, so it still wouldn't be an English parliament.

will scotland take on its share of the national debt ?

I will single-handedly clear the national debt by keeping the home fires burning in trade and industry terms on the following fronts:

• shortbread
• scotch pies
• irn bru

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

Mr Johnson will never grant an IndyRef 2 referendum, and the law is quite clear so that no court action will succeed.

If I were Nicola (and I'm not) I wouldn' t want a referendum just yet. I would however want to keep asking to highlight those evil English saying "no" because that raises lots of questions about it being a Union. I know quite a few people who would probably vote no but feel it's not up to Westminister to allow a vote if the people of Scotland want one. I'd probably also want the post Brexit trade deals to be negotiated because it's likely that England and Scottish would want/need different things. I think Sir Ivan Rogers highlighted that recently and if Scotland gets screwed...that's another motivation isn't it. We live in a farming/fishing area and lots of the people I know voted conservative/leave because they think they'll get better deals post Brexit. If that turns out not to the case, they are going to feel very let down, very angry and likely to shift their vote especially if they see English/Welsh farmers/fisherman benefiting from said trade deals.

In the meantime to borrow a mumsnet phase, I'd be "getting all my ducks in a row". They know the questions they fell down on last time, currency, border (which would be a lot easier to police than than say in NI for geographical reasons as much as political ones) and paying for everything and personally I'd take the 5 years of this parliament to do as much planning as possible whilst also relying on Boris to boris.

I voted no and remain respectively in the previous referendums.

Sturgeon signed an agreement that she would stand by the referendum which ruled to stay in the UK. She has a problem now. Scottish Independence is for now very hypothetical. If I were a Scot I would vote to stay due to the scottish economy

Sturgeon is an arsehole. I’m a Scot who lives in England and it depresses me to watch my home country be destroyed in the pursuit of so called independence.

Sturgeon knows full well that a yes to indy2 is not a given. She doesnt want one yet. But she makes a show of aski g UK gov knowing they will say no . Look guys, I tried. The bad guys said no. Scotland is in no way ready to be independent in terms of currency, customs and Defence to name but 3. She knows it. There are no answers as to what it will cost and who will pay for it. The last White Paper for indyref 1 had holes in it you could drive a bus through. All based on an oil forecast which didnt happen. She also has the Alex Salmond court case coming up, which is going to attract news and leave a bad smell whatever happens. She is just making noise and being manipulative to her adoring followers. Its what politicians do.

therein lies the problem. We don't want a Tory government but it doesn't matter as we have to do what England tells us.

Should've left when you had the chance.
Scotland make a lot more of their own choices than the other countries in the UK.

because otherwise the other side of the coin has to have a say too - i.e. the English, Welsh and Northern Irish who will also be affected

Of course by 2050 we have to be carbon neutral so all that supposed oil revenue is hogwash too. don't get me wrong, I love Scotland and the Scots, I totally think they should have a say in their future but it must be done sensibly and not at the expense of other people's futures. As I said earlier, we English are the only ones in the UK who do not have their own parliament. More people live in London than live in Scotland - it doesn't have its own parliament.

Yes, an independent Scotland could have a "hard border" with England. This would be a hassle for border communities but I'd venture that it would be infinitely less contentious than a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic. (The Irish border is also three times the length).

OP, I get the distinct impression that what you actually looking for is English independence which would give English the brexit you seem to crave. The rest of the UK would remain in the EU quite happily.

But that would be completely the decision of the English, whether it's at the expense of the future of others. That's democracy.

By the way, you do know that, despite how big it is, London isn't actually a country and Scotland is?

Obviously if Scotland left gb and was independent and an EU member there would be a hard border.

It's up to the Scots what they want to do, or it should be.

I'm English through and through and I think we're twats tbh.

I'm English, so I have no voice to vote on if you stay or go. I'd vote to make Scotland independent if I was able to though.

Mumsnet= Jock phobia. It is actually pretty gross.

Scotland won't have to have a hard border. rUK will have to have a hard border, because it's rUK that wants to leave the EU and it's rUK that refuses to be in Schengen.