AIBU that an independent Scotland ill have to have a hard border to ensure the rest of the UK keeps control of its borders when Scotland joins theEU

[monstiebags]

Whilst I totally agree that Scotland has the right to become independent, it seems to me that they want to push though a vote without telling the people how they expect to fund themselves, what currency they will use and what trading agreement they expect to have with the UK. I really think that these things should be made clear to the rest of the UK before they are allowed their rightful vote - A weak Scotland using our currency could drag us all down with them and a soft border would encourage the continued uncontrolled migration to England via Scotland. AIBU

I'm not saying Scotland doesn't have a deficit. I dont agree with independence. I dont think scotland will survive it financially.
But that figure and the 60% thing from this year.. it is not correct.

When Scotland chooses independence there will be no hard border and minimal trade barriers.

If Scotland join the EU, the type of border will depend on the deal struck by the UK with the EU. If the UK maintain regulatory alignment etc, then a soft border is possible. Likewise trade barriers. If the UK leave without a deal (still very possible) then the border would be very hard.

Obviously, that is only if Scotland join the EU. If they don't, it would depend on the deal struck between Scotland and the United(ish) Kingdom of a Bit of GB and NI.

I quite like that name. The United(ish) Kingdom of a Bit of GB and NI

Fizzygreenwater........... You spelt my name wrong there

well there you go, case proven. Well done on seizing on yet another way to show that you are a. not a serious person and b. only seem interested in deflecting points rather than addressing them.

Lulu I have no idea why you're continuinng to engage with someone who is just beginning to look a bit trolly now! Perhaps if this thread dies down for a bit Harbingerofboredom will... bore off.

The Loose Shire Collective also has a good-ish ring to it

After independence Downing Street is going to have to play nice with Bute House got many, many, many reasons. And the civil service knows it.

whyamidoingthis

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland would still be the only united kingdom in Great Britain and Ireland, and so it would be the definitive article. Taiwan is still officially "The Republic of China," just as South Korea is "The Republic of Korea."

The Kingdoms of England (inc Wales) and Scotland combined in the Act of 1707. After that, there was no England and no Scotland, it says so in the Act. That United Kingdom then entered a union with the Kingdom of Ireland to form the United Kingdom of GB & I. Scotland was not a party to that act.

In 1921, there was such a thing as (lower case) southern Ireland, a part of the UK which gained its independence as the Irish Free State, which became the Republic of Ireland in 1949, not to be confused with the Irish Republice which was the unrecognsed 32 county republic unikaterally declared by Snn Fein in 1918 and which SF continued to claim to be the sole legitimate govt of until 1999.

(See also Northern Ireland vs the north of Ireland.)

As a seceding state, Scotland would by default start with zero liabilities and zero assets save the land and territorial waters of Scotland. Just what would constitute "Scotland" would be a matter for the UK, which could (and in all probability would) keep Rockall and RNB Clyde, and also possibly other territory.

Lulualla darn spell check!!

Is it now, aye?!

😂 I'm off to do my shopping now but if you guys in Scotland want independence that badly (I think you're fools!) but I wish you well.

The Loose Shire Collective also has a good-ish ring to it

It does but there are no shires in NI. They haven't gone yet. You wouldn't want them to feel any more unwanted than they currently do.

It's like talking to a child. Yes.. we all want independence. That's why the Yes vote lost. And that's why Scots like me campaign against independence.

Harpingon, there has never been a majority wanting independence in Scotland. There still isn’t, and the SNP vote share dropped by another 5% at this election.
Please don’t tar us all with the SNP brush - most of can’t stand Sturgeon. And I have faith that most Scots are too sensible to vote for an undefended banana republic with no currency, credit rating, or the cash reserves to meet its own public service liabilities.

Looking forward to the new year and the trial of grabbyhands Eck.

@CrissmussMockers - The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland would still be the only united kingdom in Great Britain and Ireland, and so it would be the definitive article.

That's semantics really. It depends on how you interpret the phrase.

In 1921, there was such a thing as (lower case) southern Ireland, a part of the UK which gained its independence as the Irish Free State

Southern Ireland was never recognised by the Irish and is considered to be a derogatory term. Although I will give you that it was a term used by the UK government. Ironically, the most northerly part of the Island of Ireland is in the south.

It's difficult to know what else to call it, pre-1921.

It's difficult to know what else to call it, pre-1921.

Maybe, but southern Ireland never came into being, as the election of 1921, which enacted 1920 Government of Ireland Act, resulted in a Sinn Féin landslide and an independent parliament, eventually becoming the Irish Free State in 1922.

You can always refer to it as the 26 counties.

Why is it that people who CONSTANTLY try and underline how totally unbothered they are by adding crying-laughing emojis to every single post come across as such vapid huns?

There's something so teenage about it!

“ nd the SNP vote share dropped by another 5% at this election.”

Can’t you read?

General Elections to the UK Parliament.

2017 SNP 36.9%
2019 SNP 45%

That’s not a reduction of 5%, is it?

There's not much point arguing about vote share, it was a general election, not a referendum offering a binary choice. Plus, it's not just the SNP who support independence, the Greens do too.

There are also labour voters who support it too, it looks like the Labour Party might come out fully baking independence. Even they understand that when 80% of the seats are controlled by a pro-independence party it's time to take stock of the situation.

Personally, I would be quite glad to no longer have Scottiesh MPs sitting in the UK parliament - England does not have its own parliament, a state of affairs which is totally ridiculous.

Did Scotland vote for the current government? No.
Did Wales vote for the current government? No.

Why does England need it's own parliament then? It essentially has one and inflicts it on the rest of the UK.

I personally hope Scotland goes its own way soon. The current situation is pretty toxic. Surely there must even be quite a few proUnion Scottish people who must recognize that the independence issue is simply not going to go away. It’s a question of when, not if. I’d hold a referendum every year for the next five years and pray that one results in a Yes vote. Then everyone can move on as (hopefully) good neighbors rather than grudge holders.

The SNP is significantly more popular in Scotland than the Conservative Party is in England. That holds true by any metric you’d care to measure (percentage of seats, vote share etc). Just go already!

I personally hope Scotland goes its own way soon. Dear God no.

How does a Scottish ref work. Is it by seats/ local councils like the GE or is it done on % of people? I only ask as although NS got a landslide majority, 50+% didn't vote for her.

Just asking, I don't care either way. Would she have won a referendum based on last weeks result?

Referenda are not usually linked to constituencies, they are just on vote share.

I personally hope Scotland goes its own way soon. Dear God no.

It might make Westminster wake up, but I doubt it. I've wondered for ages if there's any scope in discussions with Rep of Ireland, and Northern Ireland when it goes, about some kind of Scandi-style agreement. I wish Scotland and the Scottish all the best, they actually speak for a lot of regional disgruntlement but only they have the identity and power to make it count. We will probably see Yorkshire First strengthen yet, and god knows what will happen in the Midlands if Brexit does not deliver what they've been promised.