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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To still like Jeremy Corbyn?

758 replies

malificent7 · 14/12/2019 06:59

I think it's right that he stepped down as the public clearly didn't get him...hated him even but i think he stands for the good in society. I actually think he is correctvto call out Israel for being bastards to Palestine and whilst ge apparently supports terroism ( ira), i think he is a negotiator ...the UK shafted Ireland hugely and the IRA is a consequence of that. We need people to negotiate with them.
I slso think remaining neutral on Brexit was the right thing to do but respecting the will of the people.

I don't hate Boris but he has got away with a lot. He has said many racist slurs, he hates women, he has multiple illegitimate children yet blames women, he switched sides re Brexit, oh and he's happy to trade with people like Saudi Arabia who have awful human rights. But apparently Jeremy is the bad one.

OP posts:
recrudescence · 15/12/2019 19:49

I’m not a purist. I’m just not a mendacious little fucker like Boris and his ilk.

You are positing nonsensical false alternatives. It isn’t a choice between lying and gaining power or being honest and failing to gain it. Permanent, ideologically pure opposition is completely useless to the people you claim to care about.

AuntSpiker · 15/12/2019 19:51

And again, I don’t believe the difference is as great as is being made out.

Are you talking about the difference in your maths and mine? Or are you saying that the swathes of feedback from candidates and voters is wrong in relation to what the main problem was? If it's the latter, I'm afraid if those choosing the next Labour leader think the same way, then Boris will be voted back in in 5 years. A viable opposition is really important for healthly politics. We need an electable Labour leader.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 15/12/2019 19:55

Integrity isn’t what most people associate Corbyn with having

Just his loyal supporters

Corbyn and the left of the party do not respect the right of those that hold different opinions we know this because of how many people have reported the bullying and nastiness within the party. This was not an issue under Blair/Brown

It’s real politics that impact people’s lives not some student union idealist politics Corbyn until 2015 has never been near the front bench never had any influence over real issues and decisions government had to make (apart from voting and we know he continuously voted against his own party one can’t help thinking why he didn’t stand as an independent 🙄) he never held a position of responsibility other than being a local MP he was seen as a rebellious idiot on the back benches there has always been a few in the Labour Party

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 15/12/2019 19:57

My membership has been reinstated

Marleyisme · 15/12/2019 19:57

Then he should have just stepped down and not ran. Father trying to turn the labour party into something many people can no longer endorse.

Green MPs have often said they dont expect to gain power. But they stand by their principles anyway.

JC and momentum assumed that labour voters would stick with them regardless and they could push further and further left. Easier than building a party from scratch, though.

Even now he isnt leaving so they can have a successor similar to him. To the detriment if the party. And then the country.

Again, either he has no clue about the population in general or just didnt care.

HomelessnessIsABigIssue · 15/12/2019 23:24

I agree with you OP.

The media don't like him and that has fuelled the ant corbyn sentiment, along with his own party not being too keen on him.

I persoanlly like the man and think he'd have been ok as the pm, and better than Boris

Lizzie0869 · 16/12/2019 00:27

I am denying that Corbyn and his policies lack popular support.

But you intimated that he didn't quite win, when actually he was well beaten. When you look at the reasons people didn't vote Labour, the top reason being reported was Corbyn himself. Not Brexit, not being pro-Boris, but because they couldn't vote for him and his policies.

Quite. But Corbyn and Momentum just put their fingers in their ears and refuse to listen. However you look at it, Labour is the only party whose share of the vote plummeted, down 8%. The other parent largely stayed the same, just 1% either up or down.

Most people come to understand as children that we don't get everything we want. (I keep repeating that to my DDs when they go on about wanting something. It isn't how the world works. The key is to accept this and find a compromise.

Surely a more moderate Labour programme is better than BoJo having the massive majority they have now.

Historically, to win elections, it's always been necessary for political parties to convince floating voters that they can be trusted.

MidnightCircus · 16/12/2019 01:50

But the bottom line is that ten million people considered Labour their best option. You can’t say he has no support

We can. 10 million out of a population of 66 million is nothing. No, not all of that 66 million can vote, but that will apply to all parties. Until Labour realise the policies put in place by Corbyn are totally wrong for Britain, they will never win.

fascicle · 16/12/2019 01:51

churchandstate
I am denying that Corbyn and his policies lack popular support.

AuntSpiker
When you look at the reasons people didn't vote Labour, the top reason being reported was Corbyn himself. Not Brexit, not being pro-Boris, but because they couldn't vote for him and his policies.

AuntSpiker
A viable opposition is really important for healthly politics. We need an electable Labour leader.

If the problem was more to do with Corbyn and his policies, rather than Brexit, AuntSpiker, why do you think the Labour party under Corbyn's leadership fared so much better in the 2017 general election when the Brexit process had barely begun? (In that election, Labour increased their vote share by 9.5%, achieving a 40% vote share compared to the Tory vote share of 42.4% and Labour gained 30 seats while the Tories lost 13 seats.)

MidnightCircus · 16/12/2019 01:58

why do you think the Labour party under Corbyn's leadership fared so much better in the 2017 general election when the Brexit process had barely begun?

Oh, they reused the same manifesto from 2017 in this election did they? Hmm

fascicle · 16/12/2019 02:33

Oh, they reused the same manifesto from 2017 in this election did they? Hmm

Some of the ideas and pledges are the same. There are also key differences/additions. But since this is a thread on which Jeremy Corbyn is being scrutinised, held accountable etc, my question, particularly in relation to AuntSpiker's comment, is relevant. Are you saying it's policy changes, rather than Corbyn himself, that resulted in Labour losing the election?

10 million out of a population of 66 million is nothing

That's a nonsensical comparison. Looking at percentage of vote share and total votes across parties are meaningful comparisons.

Marleyisme · 16/12/2019 05:38

Are you saying it's policy changes, rather than Corbyn himself, that resulted in Labour losing the election?

I think I might be wrong. Are you saying Corbyn has nothing to do with policy change? So these arent his principles that he is standing by or his beliefs?

The problem is, that Corbyn took the 2017 election as a sign he could keep adding things in, pushing further and further because he had support in 2017. He (and momentum) seemingly presumed their support was building.

So again it comes down to either he didnt care and he had no clue what was going on.

Either way, Labour lost due to poor leadership. He gained in 2017 because people wanted Teresa May out. She was (or portrayed as) shit. Their manifesto was better. But as time as gone on, they havent read the mood. They havent realised that people didnt believe they could give all they said.

happyandsingle · 16/12/2019 07:28

He should of got rid of people like Diane Abbott I think labour need a total reshuffle
My favourite for labour leader is Angela rayner.

noblegiraffe · 16/12/2019 08:04

why do you think the Labour party under Corbyn's leadership fared so much better in the 2017 general election

Remainers voted for Labour in 2017 not realising that it was a rerun of the referendum and their Labour vote would be taken as evidence of support for Brexit.

People were very angry about austerity in 2017.

Labour didn’t do better in 2017 so much as the Tories did much worse. Support for Labour was low until the Conservative manifesto came out and it was a pile of horrendous shite. They avoided that this time by having a manifesto that contained some spending pledges (so neutralising austerity) and very little else (no fox hunting, no grammar schools).

BadLad · 16/12/2019 08:07

why do you think the Labour party under Corbyn's leadership fared so much better in the 2017 general election

The Tory campaign was much worse in 2017, for one thing.

MarshaBradyo · 16/12/2019 08:12

What was different between the Labour policies? Did they add more freebies on for 2019.

churchandstate · 16/12/2019 08:26

We can. 10 million out of a population of 66 million is nothing. No, not all of that 66 million can vote, but that will apply to all parties. Until Labour realise the policies put in place by Corbyn are totally wrong for Britain, they will never win.

It’s ten million out of forty seven million, not sixty six.

The Conservatives didn’t even take that many votes from Labour: 13,905,520 voters up from 13,636,684 in 2017. Labour lost most of their votes to the Lib Dems/SNP and, in marginal seats, to the Brexit Party, who stood down against Conservative candidates.

This desperate campaign to blame Corbyn personally - particularly by people who have supported him and his politics in the past - disgusts me.

churchandstate · 16/12/2019 08:38

But with that said, I think Corbyn is doing the right thing by staying on. It allows the leadership candidates time to distance themselves from him before the contest, and if people are busy blaming him for his apparent hubris and incompetence (Hmm) it gives the new leader a clearer run in opposition.

MidnightCircus · 16/12/2019 08:44

I know it's nonsensical. So is claiming Labour had great policies the British wanted because 10 million agreed.
I know the Conservatives didn't take that many votes. The fact they took any is important though

churchandstate · 16/12/2019 08:46

MidnightCircus

If ten million people out of forty seven million vote for something, it is pathetic posturing to pretend that’s an insignificant number, particularly when we know Brexit split the vote. There is a lot of support for progressive politics in this country. We just need the right candidate now, to mobilise it.

MarshaBradyo · 16/12/2019 08:49

There isn’t a lot of support for free broadband, 4 day week and nationalisation and the rest piling up. The worst Labour result since 1935 shows this.

There is a lot of support for a centre left with the only Labour leader to win in last fifty years - 3 times, over 10 years and a huge landslide in 1997 shows this.

Labour’s learning from this election is the difference between obscurity and rebuilding. It’s dangerous to be so obtuse about it.

MidnightCircus · 16/12/2019 08:52

I know there's support for progressive policies. I'm not dismissing those who voted for Labour, I get that. I'm just frustrated at constantly hearing how much better they are when it was clear not enough people thought so. If Labour had a manifesto that actually listened to what people wanted, was sensible and would actually work for the country, he would have got somewhere. Blindly pretending his manifesto was great, when it's not, is the problem.

churchandstate · 16/12/2019 08:53

I’m not obtuse about anything. Free broadband was one stick in the manifesto; you’re using it to represent the whole. A 4 day week would make an enormous difference to the quality of life for lower earners in this country, so I continue to express interest in whether it’s possible.

Either way, the next Labour leader shouldn’t be contending with Brexit, and we will see how the wind blows then.

AuntSpiker · 16/12/2019 08:53

People are blaming Corbyn now because they couldn't say anything sooner. Candidates who were told on the doorstep that people wouldn't vote for Labour because of him could hardly say anything before election day. People like Alan Johnson, David Blunkett and Jack Straw weren't going to go public before people voted were they?

As for not losing many votes to the conservatives, we have a first past the post system in this country, and they lost, I think, 51 seats to the conservatives. That's what counts.

Corbyn has had consistently worse personal ratings than Boris, which is quite something when you think about it. A different leader with a different manifesto might have won this election for Labour.