To still like Jeremy Corbyn?

[malificent7]

I think it's right that he stepped down as the public clearly didn't get him...hated him even but i think he stands for the good in society. I actually think he is correctvto call out Israel for being bastards to Palestine and whilst ge apparently supports terroism ( ira), i think he is a negotiator ...the UK shafted Ireland hugely and the IRA is a consequence of that. We need people to negotiate with them.
I slso think remaining neutral on Brexit was the right thing to do but respecting the will of the people.

I don't hate Boris but he has got away with a lot. He has said many racist slurs, he hates women, he has multiple illegitimate children yet blames women, he switched sides re Brexit, oh and he's happy to trade with people like Saudi Arabia who have awful human rights. But apparently Jeremy is the bad one.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

He didn’t only consider his own principles. He didn’t seize power in a bloody night of the long knives - he was elected by the membership.

And my suggestion would therefore be, to anyone who wants the Labour leader to be a centrist but isn’t a dues-paying member, join the party. Have your say.

My thoughts exactly, churchandstate

I like him & think he has integrity. But I couldn’t vote for his policies.

The difference was 2 million votes. It’s a lot, but the difference between Labour and Tories is less than it appears in terms of seats in the House of Commons.

Well firstly, you might want to check your maths The difference was actually 3,670,958. Secondly it's a first past the post system in the UK anyway.

So by either measure, her was well beaten as opposed to having 'not quite enough' support

Oh yes the membership

Sadly made up of so many that are as ridiculous as Corbyn is lead by ideology and unfortunately shall probably continue to follow his instruction

You must know this about the Labour Party there is a fraction on the left of the party that absolutely despised Tony Blair and voted against him again and again (Corbyn/McDonnell along with others). They unexpectedly gained power and have tried to create a Labour Party they feel is what the Labour Party should be (I was astounded to hear McDonnell praise the Blair years last week before he has been full of scorn) not a party that will be accepted by a country that is far more likely to vote Conservative into power. It doesn’t matter how unpopular a leader is they will try to keep them there or replace them with someone who holds the same stance as that is what is most important Labour being left wing rather than centre left - if you have knowledge of Labour Party politics you will know this

This isn’t the first time it happened under Michael Foot and he didn’t do as badly as Corbyn

Unfortunately we haven’t seen the end of Corbyn/McDonnell/Momentum damaging hold over the party but thankfully it’s the beginning of the end (for the time being they shall regroup and plan their revolution)

If he wants to stand by his principals then he should have run as an independent, not decimated the labour party.Politicians are supposed to 'serve', it's not just about him and his principles. He let his party down, and he let the electorate down.
As for getting 10 million votes, well of course they weren't going to get zero. They're still one of the 2 main political parties.

So by either measure, her was well beaten as opposed to having 'not quite enough' support

It was a beating - I’m not denying that. I am denying that Corbyn and his policies lack popular support. You can say that about the Greens, Brexit Party and probably the Lib Dems, but for me it’s a nonsense to say it when the party you’re talking about took practically a third of the vote.

If he wants to stand by his principals then he should have run as an independent, not decimated the labour party.Politicians are supposed to 'serve',

He did serve. He served the people who elected him as leader on a left wing platform. That was his job.

So now we are condemning people for holding their principles dearer than power?

What can you achieve if you’re not in government? You seem to think being in power is unimportant.

They unexpectedly gained power and have tried to create a Labour Party they feel is what the Labour Party should be

Shocking.

recrudescence

It’s very important, if you have a mandate to do what you believe is right. If you are only able to gain power by promising to do things you don’t believe are right, you might as well not have it.

Well once again you are showing your lack knowledge of politics of the UK and within the Labour Party

The UK is not and never has been a left leaning country even with someone as charismatic as Blair that was not going to happen. At most it’s centre left

And neither are we a far right leaning country our politics tends to sit quite centrally

There is a lesson that Corbyn is aware of but doesn’t care of

If you are only able to gain power by promising to do things you don’t believe are right, you might as well not have it.

It’s this sort of absurd doctrinal purity that will give us Tory government until I’m dead. Cheers.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

I think you are showing your lack of knowledge of the purpose of political engagement: it’s not to match what you say to the opinions of others, it’s to shape those opinions and persuade others that what you think is right, is right.

This whole debate shows up the problem of politics in this country: not enough integrity by half, too many people willing to lie and obfuscate to get to a position of power, too few courageous enough to genuinely set out their stall and respect the rights of voters to agree or to disagree with them. It’s entitlement, pure and simple - we think we should be in charge and we’re willing to pretend we agree with you long enough to get there. Very sad.

Only Corbyn and Momentum are that bad re the pointless purity.

So how can Labour go back towards the centre? People who are in the centre are put off joining. But if that can be overcome

I am denying that Corbyn and his policies lack popular support.
But you intimated that he didn't quite win, when actually he was well beaten. When you look at the reasons people didn't vote Labour, the top reason being reported was Corbyn himself. Not Brexit, not being pro-Boris, but because they couldn't vote for him and his policies.

recrudescence

I’m not a purist. I’m just not a mendacious little fucker like Boris and his ilk.

AuntSpiker

And again, I don’t believe the difference is as great as is being made out.

Oh please

It’s grown up politics

I am sure many MP’s in all parties think a four day working week sounds like a nice idea certainly a possible vote winner but isn’t practical

Fuck knows how we would manage that in the NHS

People who are in the centre are put off joining.

Then, with due respect to them and their opinions, why do they think they get a say?

a different leader might have done better with different policies but that is by no means definite

The account from the guy who ran the Labour campaign on the Isle of Wight thinks Corbyn was a major issue:

“It doesn’t matter whether we think this is wrong, or unfair. Corbyn’s “othering” was a fact in the minds of many voters, and led to their receptiveness to lies about Labour policies, people or intentions which perhaps they wouldn’t have been susceptible to if their loathing of Corbyn hadn’t opened the door. It was the biggest single factor locally in our failure to either attract Tory voters, or inspire non-voters to come out.

Of course all Labour leaders get monstered by the right-wing press, in direct proportion to the distance they propose to put between their policies and the extreme Thatcherism the media owners’ prefer. Most voters are at some level aware of that bias and factor it into their willingness to believe related claims. What I think made this “othering” campaign so completely effective was the large-scale contribution of people from within the Labour Party itself, amplified by a gleeful Tory press. That contribution ensured that any lingering doubts about the veracity of claims from Rothermere, Murdoch or the Tory Lie Machine could be safely cast aside. But I’ll leave that hissing bomb there, because for the purposes of this blog, all we need to understand is that Corbyn genuinely was widely loathed by voters who were overwhelmingly unwilling to consider alternative beliefs, and who, as a result, were both hostile to Labour approaches and uncritically receptive to Tory lies.”

disidealist.wordpress.com/2019/12/14/notes-from-the-cult-fear-loathing-and-nationalised-gardens/

I mean, fgs Corbyn managed to alienate his own MPs. Of course he was an issue with voters.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

It’s not “grown up” anything. It’s deceit. Please don’t try to elevate being a liar to the status of a virtue.

It’s a problem. I loathe the current form of Labour but I’m musing over the change that needs to happen. I see a few on other threads are joining. I’m going to think about it.

Anyway, I’ve spent enough time with you all.
My suggestion - just to repeat it - get a membership card, then you get to make the decisions. 🤷🏻‍♀️