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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To still like Jeremy Corbyn?

758 replies

malificent7 · 14/12/2019 06:59

I think it's right that he stepped down as the public clearly didn't get him...hated him even but i think he stands for the good in society. I actually think he is correctvto call out Israel for being bastards to Palestine and whilst ge apparently supports terroism ( ira), i think he is a negotiator ...the UK shafted Ireland hugely and the IRA is a consequence of that. We need people to negotiate with them.
I slso think remaining neutral on Brexit was the right thing to do but respecting the will of the people.

I don't hate Boris but he has got away with a lot. He has said many racist slurs, he hates women, he has multiple illegitimate children yet blames women, he switched sides re Brexit, oh and he's happy to trade with people like Saudi Arabia who have awful human rights. But apparently Jeremy is the bad one.

OP posts:
churchandstate · 15/12/2019 09:51

Yes it is. A leader needs to balance what they AND their party (not just their own views) think is best and what the electorate wants. Get voted in and then make the changes that you can.

The party elected him as leader knowing he wouldn’t do that. He wasn’t circumspect about his politics. This whole “poor Labour Party” thing doesn’t wash with me. This is throwing him under the bus.

Nottheboreworms · 15/12/2019 09:53

It's utterly naive to think that elections in this country aren't won on the centre ground. Ideological purity is a fantasy for those who don't actually have to govern.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 15/12/2019 09:53

But politics isn’t about aping the majority. It’s about putting forward your thoughts and seeing who agrees with you

To be successful in politics to be a successful leader of a party you have to work with what you have not a fluffy idea on how you would like the country to be

That’s grown up real politics. Back bench rebels can sit around wittering on about the revolution and what they would do all they like with little regard to reality of what they could do.

Those in power have to put aside their personal views at times as they have to make decisions that will at times conflict with what the believe in. If they can’t do that then they are in no position to be leading the opposition and certainly should not be PM

Do you think all PM’s want to go to war, want to cut services and want to make decisions that will be unpopular with voters but they have to

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 09:57

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

I believe - firmly - that Corbyn put together a (mainly) deliverable manifesto. Not enough people agreed with it to win him power, and he wouldn’t pretend to be a centrist to get their votes anyway. That’s all there is here. He hasn’t done anything wrong. Just not enough people agreed with him.

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 09:59

Nottheboreworms

I believe you’re probably right that the election would have gone a different way had Corbyn been a different man or woman, but he hasn’t done anything actually wrong in presenting his true vision to the electorate.

amaryl · 15/12/2019 10:01

I like him, can’t stand Boris
And I can’t understand why people see the opposite.

Marleyisme · 15/12/2019 10:03

The party elected him as leader knowing he wouldn’t do that. He wasn’t circumspect about his politics. This whole “poor Labour Party” thing doesn’t wash with me. This is throwing him under the bus.

There is no whole 'poor labour party's coming from me. The party members were absolutely wrong to vote him to stay. Momentum are absolutely wrong.

However, he isnt stupid. He knows what it takes to win. If he couldnt moderate and aim to compromise and win....he could have stepped down and accepted it's not the job for him.

Nottheboreworms · 15/12/2019 10:03

Maybe not "wrong" but at best it was naive and an exercise in self indulgent vanity driven by a cult following that he was too weak to stand up to.

The result is a massive Tory majority and despair for those in society who most needed a centre left government and are now without a credible opposition. But as long as JC can wear his ideological purity badge of honour who cares eh?

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 10:05

And actually, in a few years, once the Tories have asset stripped the country and dismantled the legal infrastructure that protects the vulnerable (HRA, minimum wage, Equalities Act etc.) I believe people will sing a different tune about Corbyn.

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 10:06

Nottheboreworms

Naive? Yes. Self-indulgent? No. Corbyn our together a manifesto for the many, not for himself.

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 10:07

However, he isnt stupid. He knows what it takes to win. If he couldnt moderate and aim to compromise and win....he could have stepped down and accepted it's not the job for him.

But in 2017 he nearly did win, Marley. The electorate shifts about. It’s not true to say he never had a chance of winning.

Nottheboreworms · 15/12/2019 10:07

Yes - they'll be even more angry that the Labour Party failed to give them a credible alternative.

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 10:09

Yes - they'll be even more angry that the Labour Party failed to give them a credible alternative.

There was nothing incredible about it. They just didn’t want it.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 15/12/2019 10:11

He has done plenty wrong as a leader

Ignoring and turning a blind eye to anti semitism

Useless opposition and wasn’t able to manage his party

And before he became leader the list is quite long - he wasn’t seen fit to be PM we all know why regardless if you or other supporters do not agree these were always issues for him they were not going to go away

The manifesto (as with the Tory manifesto ) was criticized by the IFS

Voters are not so foolish and understand that any rise in tax for business or higher income tax earners will be paid by everyone in the long run. It’s not as simple as you take tax from the more wealthy to give to the less fortunate and all become equal

Marleyisme · 15/12/2019 10:14

But in 2017 he nearly did win, Marley. The electorate shifts about. It’s not true to say he never had a chance of winning.

Not nearly enough. And what did he and momentum do, lean more to the extreme. Which he knows wouldnt win. He kept himself in the momentum bubble and didnt listened to the mood of the electorate.

They remained convinced they were right.

This isnt what leaders do. Its ok not be a leader. To not want to compromise. But donr try and lead a political party to be elected into power.

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 10:14

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

I am not convinced he ignored anti-semitism more than the Tories did.

I think the Labour Party is very divided and fractious. I am not sure who would have done a significantly better job. I believe Corbyn’s leadership was flawed, but he did the best he was capable of doing. That’s not wrong.

Corbyn’s spending plans were supported by 163 leading economists.

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 10:15

Marleyisme

I believe every single adult citizen in this country has the right to put themselves forward to lead the political party they have joined. That’s democracy. It’s not wrong.

bruffin · 15/12/2019 10:19

Most people want the opportunity to train yes...under the Tories i am borrowing 60,000 to train to be a radiographer...an NHS shortage job.
Under labour i would have got a bursary.
My dd is study in Wales and qualifies for a NHS bursary . It wasnt worth her taking it. We live in England so do get a slightly lower maintenance than the Welsh but still less than

  1. The maintenance loan is minimal and a lot less than you get under the normal student loans. It would not have covered her accomodation let alone living. Cardiff is cheap to live compared to some unis in the UK and under the old UK NHS bursary she would have been even worse off.
  2. In the short she would have been worse term, in the medium term once she left uni she would be on par with any other student paying of the loan ie 9 % on earnings over than 25k
  3. Only in the long term is it beneficial in the fact that you may pay it off before you are 55.
  1. also with the welsh system, dont know if it was the same in the uk system, if you drop out or not complete 2 years in nhs you have to pay back immediately and not through student loans system.
DD certainly wasnt better off with a bursary than she is without one.

And due to doing a 1000 hours placement she it is difficult for her to find a regular job to supplement her income. She does minimum 3 weeks at a time of 9 to 5 with up to an hour commute each way and in some cases may have to live away on some placements.

Marleyisme · 15/12/2019 10:23

I believe every single adult citizen in this country has the right to put themselves forward to lead the political party they have joined. That’s democracy. It’s not wrong.

And as an adult you should know your strengths and weaknesses. Having the right to do something, doesnt mean you should or you would be good at it.

If you are saying this man had no clue that he isnt a leader he shouldnt be in charge anyway.

Anyway you cut it. He should have chosen to step down.

bruffin · 15/12/2019 10:25

Most people want the opportunity to train yes...under the Tories i am borrowing 60,000 to train to be a radiographer..an NHS shortage job.Under labour i would have got a bursary
sorry above should have been highlighted

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 10:25

Marleyisme

I think he would have made an excellent PM. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Marleyisme · 15/12/2019 10:31

I think he would have made an excellent PM

Good for you. That doesnt have anything to do with what we were discussing.

He is an experienced politician. He knew he wasnt a natural leader. He knows his views woudlnt get him elected without home compromising. He refused to compromise (which is his right) knowing the electorate wouldnt go for it. He chose to stay knowing labour would lose and be left with the tories.

Or he genuinely believed the whole country agreed with him.

So which is it? He thought his right to be party leader, was more important than getting elected and actually helping people.

Or he had no clue what people felt outside his bubble?

Because either way, it's not great.

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 10:33

Good for you. That doesnt have anything to do with what we were discussing.

Of course it does. He’s the leader I want, so it means I disagree with your assessment of him, and therefore your conclusion that he should have stepped down because he wasn’t a leader.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 15/12/2019 10:38

So you didn’t see Corbyn not apologizing. No one is denying the Tory party have their own issues but this became such a focus within the Labour Party since Corbyn and the left took over. MP’s have left the party because of this and Corbyn just sad back and did nothing he certainly didn’t do his best in looking out for his own MP’s.

Yes the manifesto did have some support and no doubt that was lead by some of their personal political beliefs, but the public are also aware that the economy is not secure enough to be promising such huge increases in spending and the costs of renationalising industries. 163 people is small numbers when big business nearly all backed Tory (more the norm but not under Blair)

The party has always had a left wing fraction that at times has held more power - everytime this has happened The Labour Party fail at the elections because it’s not what the public want

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 10:40

So you didn’t see Corbyn not apologizing

I don’t think he has anything to apologise for. Why would he need to apologise for working as hard as he could, setting out his stall honestly and behaving with dignity throughout?