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Original poster

To still like Jeremy Corbyn?

758 replies

malificent7 · 14/12/2019 06:59

I think it's right that he stepped down as the public clearly didn't get him...hated him even but i think he stands for the good in society. I actually think he is correctvto call out Israel for being bastards to Palestine and whilst ge apparently supports terroism ( ira), i think he is a negotiator ...the UK shafted Ireland hugely and the IRA is a consequence of that. We need people to negotiate with them.
I slso think remaining neutral on Brexit was the right thing to do but respecting the will of the people.

I don't hate Boris but he has got away with a lot. He has said many racist slurs, he hates women, he has multiple illegitimate children yet blames women, he switched sides re Brexit, oh and he's happy to trade with people like Saudi Arabia who have awful human rights. But apparently Jeremy is the bad one.

OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 15/12/2019 08:50

That makes JC the wrong choice to lead Labour.

MarshaBradyo · 15/12/2019 08:54

He doesn’t have to change he just has to go. He should have gone earlier, but he is the most stubborn politician.

I suppose if you have people surrounding you who believe in you to the extent they do on here it’s hard to see the reality.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 15/12/2019 08:54

Instead, Labour are running around proclaiming they’re just too progressive/evolved for the electorate and therefore it’s not their fault that voters didn’t recognise JC’s brilliance Hmm

^ how true

And now Corbyn/McDonnell and Momentum will decide who shall be the next leader and that will be someone who carries on with their failed message regardless of voters rejecting this

Idiots

MarshaBradyo · 15/12/2019 08:55

Idiots indeed. They are so wrong headed.

AufderAutobahn · 15/12/2019 09:05

I like him, but I do believe he should have stepped down in 2016 to give Labour a chance of becoming a credible, electable party, which it wouldn't have been able to with him as leader.

I think he is an excellent local MP and campaigner and a very decent man, but never the right man to lead the opposition to the fuckawful Tories.

Nottheboreworms · 15/12/2019 09:06

It simply doesn't matter how principled or honest or caring he is if he can't get elected. End of. The point of a political party isn't to indulge it's members in a vanity project and hero worship but to persuade the electorate that they can make their lives better so they can obtain power and actually DO something.

This country doesn't want a hard left government. It's never wanted it. Hard left vanity projects have failed before and have (unsurprisingly) failed again.

What makes me angry is those people who desperately need a labour government have been taken for granted by a bunch of unpleasant London centric socialist worker dinosaurs and young clueless misogynistic ideologues like Owen Jones. They took no time to try and understand the working class they are supposed to represent.

And can they please stop bleating about the PLP failing to get behind JC. He spent most of his political career voting against his own party. He doesn't have the intelligence to understand the complexities and nuances of actual leadership. Labour either needs to select a moderate with some fucking gravitas or split.

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 09:14

simply doesn't matter how principled or honest or caring he is if he can't get elected. End of. The point of a political party isn't to indulge it's members in a vanity project and hero worship but to persuade the electorate that they can make their lives better so they can obtain power and actually DO something.

But in order to do that effectively they have to be doing something they believe in. Corbyn has been in Parliament over 40 years. If you expect the man to compromise his principles by becoming what he opposes rather than try to win people over to his side of the argument, I think that’s deeply unreasonable. We have enough mendacious liars in government already.

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 09:16

Costacoffeeplease

Well, what did he do that was so wrong? He presented his principles to the electorate. He told the truth about his values and intentions.

Nottheboreworms · 15/12/2019 09:25

He doesn't need to sacrifice his principles- he just has to accept that what he and his hero worshippers want is not what the electorate wants. He knew that was the case but vanity drove him on.

Like it or not the left has to find a way to propose progressive policies that are credible and doable that the electorate can get behind. Hard left policies just don't play well in this country. How can they not have learned that lesson?

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 09:28

Nottheboreworms

Which I would suggest means that nobody can ever stand as a left wing again in this country, doesn’t it? Because if enough people support you (and ten million of them did), the ones who didn’t will complain that you didn’t stand on a different platform, one they felt more comfortable with?

Nottheboreworms · 15/12/2019 09:33

Of course it's possible for a left of centre party to win. We had a left of centre government for quite a long time fairly recently as I recall....if you wantbto be radical you've got to work hard at finding a way to take the electorate with you.

MarshaBradyo · 15/12/2019 09:35

Radical can’t win but centre left can.

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 09:38

Nottheboreworms

He did work hard. A third of the country voted with him. It didn’t translate to seats. The performance was far worse than expected. But he did nothing wrong per se.

feelingverylazytoday · 15/12/2019 09:38

Well, what did he do that so wrong? He presented his principles to the electorate. He told the truth about his values and intentions
The labour party isn't, or shouldn't be, a vehicle for Jeremy Corbyn's values and principles. It should be a valid alternative to the conservative party.
The majority of the British population is conservative with a small c, and that includes the working class. Labour need to find a way to work with that, or they will never get reelected.

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 09:41

The labour party isn't, or shouldn't be, a vehicle for Jeremy Corbyn's values and principles.

Then they should have elected a different leader.

Nottheboreworms · 15/12/2019 09:41

Some of New Labour's policies were pretty radical - devolution, the Human Rights Act, NMW but they were carefully crafted over time and sold to the elecorate (and business) as credible by someone with real political and leadership skills (whether you like him personally or not).

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 09:42

The majority of the British population is conservative with a small c, and that includes the working class. Labour need to find a way to work with that, or they will never get reelected.

But politics isn’t about aping the majority. It’s about putting forward your thoughts and seeing who agrees with you.

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 09:42

Nottheboreworms

I don’t hate Blair, but yes, he was good at PR. That doesn’t mean I agreed with his politics.

Nottheboreworms · 15/12/2019 09:42

*The labour party isn't, or shouldn't be, a vehicle for Jeremy Corbyn's values and principles.

Then they should have elected a different leader.*

Bingo.

Nottheboreworms · 15/12/2019 09:44

Which of New Labour's policies were disagreeable?

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 09:44

Nottheboreworms

But they didn’t, so blame them, not him. They elected someone on the left. Neither they nor anyone else has a leg to stand on complaining that that person turned out to be...left wing.

Nottheboreworms · 15/12/2019 09:46

I do blame him. He should have stepped aside when it became clear he would not win. The polling had been telling the Labour Party this for years.

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 09:48

Which of New Labour's policies were disagreeable?

To me? Privatisation, PFI, Iraq, the emphasis on the market, quietening of support for the unions, lack of respect for individual rights and personal privacy - that’s for starters.

They also did a lot of good.

churchandstate · 15/12/2019 09:49

Nottheboreworms

Then I can only say it again: nobody can ever try to present their actual political agenda, in that scenario. We can only ever expect politicians to ape the centre. Really?

Marleyisme · 15/12/2019 09:49

But politics isn’t about aping the majority. It’s about putting forward your thoughts and seeing who agrees with you.

Yes it is. A leader needs to balance what they AND their party (not just their own views) think is best and what the electorate wants. Get voted in and then make the changes that you can.

JC and momentum need to u understand it's not all or nothing. Labour perhaps could have done a lot of good, without being so extreme

What's better for the country JC moderating the plan (he doesnt have to pretend he doesnt want to go further) or carrying on trying to convince people to follow your extreme views, knowing they wont and getting the bloody tories?