To still like Jeremy Corbyn?

[malificent7]

I think it's right that he stepped down as the public clearly didn't get him...hated him even but i think he stands for the good in society. I actually think he is correctvto call out Israel for being bastards to Palestine and whilst ge apparently supports terroism ( ira), i think he is a negotiator ...the UK shafted Ireland hugely and the IRA is a consequence of that. We need people to negotiate with them.
I slso think remaining neutral on Brexit was the right thing to do but respecting the will of the people.

I don't hate Boris but he has got away with a lot. He has said many racist slurs, he hates women, he has multiple illegitimate children yet blames women, he switched sides re Brexit, oh and he's happy to trade with people like Saudi Arabia who have awful human rights. But apparently Jeremy is the bad one.

Jillyhilly
What gives people dignity is work and purpose and fulfilment and the satisfaction of improving their lives and the lives of their dependents. Trying and doing better and making sure that your kids have it better than you did, based on your hard graft. Better opportunities are what’s needed, not “redistribution”.

Given the increase in the number of 'working poor' and the fact that most struggling households include at least one working adult, what better opportunities are you suggesting?

Meanwhile, in the real world. Scotland and the North have abandoned Labour. Exactly. I remember when Scotland voted overwhelmingly Labour till Scottish working class voters realised that Labour were taking them for mugs so they voted SNP. The penny has dropped for people in the North of England. Islington doesn't care about you. Not a jot.
Labour will get on a lot better without Momentum pundits like Ash Sarkar, Holly Rigby and Grace Blakeley'

See, that's another thing. Corbyn "promised" he would end the "scourge" (in his opinion) of zero-hours contracts.
But it's not a one-size-fits-all thing. My kids, for example, have hugely benefited from the flexibility of them.

If both of those people are hard working, good people with similar needs (food, shelter, family, healthcare etc) I don’t understand why the luck of the draw should dictate that one of them should be so much wealthier than the other

Using the surgeon/gravedigger analogy, aren't inequalities of wealth simply the consequence a free society? Many of us happily support the vulnerable through our tax so that everyone has a roof over their head, food and so on, but I doubt folk would readily pay for a mansion instead of a maisonette or lobster instead of lasagna, no matter how unfair the higher paid worker's salary seemed to be

Using the surgeon/gravedigger analogy, aren't inequalities of wealth simply the consequence a free society? Many of us happily support the vulnerable through our tax so that everyone has a roof over their head, food and so on, but I doubt folk would readily pay for a mansion instead of a maisonette or lobster instead of lasagna, no matter how unfair the higher paid worker's salary seemed to be

But that is a false dichotomy because I didn’t suggest people should be paying for others to have lobster. I suggested a dignified standard of living.

And perhaps they are the consequences of a free society. But perhaps there are aspects of that that we need to revisit. Other countries do it.

But it's not a one-size-fits-all thing. My kids, for example, have hugely benefited from the flexibility of them.

I have no issue with a person being offered a zero hours contract.

YANBU. I will always admire and respect him, and be thankful to him for making me believe there is such a thing as an honest politician.

I thought Corbyn himself was probably an OK sort of bloke with strong principles. Not a great leader but OK.

But then the day before the election he gave an interview which flat out contradicted what his manifesto said about self-ID and the equality act, so I thought 'fuck you, Corbyn'.

Mostly I didn't vote labour because momentum terrify me. There's a whiff of the Red Guards about them.

Please can we have a Boris Johnson/Tory obsession thread as I am so bored of reading this same old shit.

You won, get over it

PencilsInSpace

One of the perennial frustrations I have about politics is how the left constantly have to disestablish themselves from the lunatics of the Chinese Communist Party and Stalin, but the right never have to justify the Peterloo Massacre, or Empire, or virtually anything else. I suppose it’s what comes of being relatively late to the party.

But to the OP YADefNBU.

I think since 2010 we have become an intolerant society. People have been fed a load of lies about Corbyn who they’ve not been bothered enough to question
It’s easier to blame than admit they were wrong

He has more or less singlehandly handed a large majority to Boris. So if you don't like that, you know who to blame.

He may well be well meaning, but he was apparently unable to understand that the centre-left is as far to the left as the British public is prepared to vote into power.

At heart I suspect he feels far more comfortable in opposition, where he can criticise and oppose - without ever having to put his money where his mouth is. It's way easier to promise so much from the magic money tree than to put it into practice.

TBH I don't think he's ever grown out of the hard-left student activist phase.

I suggested a dignified standard of living

I know, churchandstate, but you also suggested that "a roughly equal standard of living" was the better moral choice, so given that someone will always cry "not faaaiiirrr", who has the final say on what roughly equal means?

You're absolutely right about the redistributive nature of the manifesto though, and with Momentum behind it I suspect that's what did for Labour with some; they saw the (admittedly veiled) communist principles and ran a mile

I will always ....be thankful to him for making me believe there is such a thing as an honest politician.

OK, actually, I'll acknowledge that he is principled.
I just disagree with what those principles are.

I know, churchandstate, but you also suggested that "a roughly equal standard of living" was the better moral choice, so given that someone will always cry "not faaaiiirrr", who has the final say on what roughly equal means?

But I also differentiate between the moral and the practical. It wouldn’t be practical to provide a roughly equal standard of living for everyone.

they saw the (admittedly veiled) communist principles and ran a mile

Yeah, I can’t argue with this. I do wonder, though, whether many of them took the time to really read up on Boris Johnson's politics. I also wonder what he has ‘veiled’. Well, I don’t. I know exactly what he thinks in his heart of hearts, and I know his actions will speak louder than his words (mostly because his words are ‘meeeerg’ and ‘d-d-d’).

Personally, I fucking love Jeremy Corbyn
But then I am a Tory

Behave yourself, Cendrillon

@MarieG10 Not all of us. I dislike Corbyn but considering the Tories are attracting people like Katie Hopkins and Tommy Robinson, were quite happy to attack Ed Miliband for his Jewishness and have run Holocaust deniers as candidates, not to mention the way Johnson wrote Jewish people in his book, I don't trust them either.

Basically, whatever I do, someone will complain. Tory gentiles will hate me for voting Labour and call me a traitor, but Labour gentiles will hate me because of Israel even though I'm not pro-Israel by a long shot.

PhilSwagielka

I would just like to say that I think anti-Semitism is so strange. I know why there is an anti-Semitic streak historically on the left but the idea that anyone is carrying that around with them now is just bizarre.

Because Jews live rent free in so many people's heads. Conspiracy theorists think we're super powerful and secretly control the world/engineered the Holocaust to make Israel exist (which is BS because Jews were emigrating to Palestine long before the Holocaust happened, and plans for a Jewish homeland were discussed in the 19th century). The left hate us because they see us as rich, privileged and white, and because of Israel. The right hate us because we're not white enough and we're too loyal to Israel, and don't forget we killed Jesus, as one colleague kindly told me. Broad generalisation, I know.

I've seen screenshots from a Tommy Robinson fans telegram where there's some absolutely horrifying anti-Semitism. I'd say the far right are more dangerous than the far left because of their high body count.

churchandstate it might help if they did a bit less of the purity politics and were not quite so purge-y.

This is a specific criticism of momentum by the way, not the left as a whole. All that youthquake energy is fantastic but very easy to manipulate.

People have been fed a load of lies about Corbyn who they’ve not been bothered enough to question Or have long memories like me and lived through the IRA years.

@churchandstate by your own thinking, you are morally corrupt. You need to go to work. No reason for you to be sahm. You need to out earning money and redistributing it.

By your own words, not going out to work means you act like a Tory. You said me reducing my hours if there is no benefit to me is, to spend time with my child is Tory thinking.

Looks like you are a Tory deep down then?

I agree with you wholeheartedly. My Nan is a good judge of character and she’s always said he’s an honest principled man and I totally agree.