To still like Jeremy Corbyn?

[malificent7]

I think it's right that he stepped down as the public clearly didn't get him...hated him even but i think he stands for the good in society. I actually think he is correctvto call out Israel for being bastards to Palestine and whilst ge apparently supports terroism ( ira), i think he is a negotiator ...the UK shafted Ireland hugely and the IRA is a consequence of that. We need people to negotiate with them.
I slso think remaining neutral on Brexit was the right thing to do but respecting the will of the people.

I don't hate Boris but he has got away with a lot. He has said many racist slurs, he hates women, he has multiple illegitimate children yet blames women, he switched sides re Brexit, oh and he's happy to trade with people like Saudi Arabia who have awful human rights. But apparently Jeremy is the bad one.

I’d quite like left-wing policies that aren’t tainted by anti-semitism.

YANBU.

I think the media onslaught - especially from that of so called socialists who are in fact nothing better than champagne socialists who are completely out of touch with the realities of very much struggling people, has been sickening and disgusting. It got to the point that even the Daily Fail were being more fair in their coverage and that's saying something.

I felt his resignation speech really highlighted the toll it has all taken on his family etc. Although I will say, seeing how the backlash was affecting the party he ought to have stood down earlier. Much earlier. You can't always win the war.

It's time we grew up in this country and stopped allowing ourselves to be manipulated by our 'betters' through the means of media spin. Everything, brexit, this election has been swung in their favour and their interests.

I won't hold my breath though that it will change though. I predict more political volitility following this.

Left wing does not equal good, virtuous etc. A lot of the very left wing people I know are absolute cunts, misogynist, selfish, hypocritical. Adopting a 'socialist' persona doesn't absolve you of any blame in any argument.

I believe left wing policies are more virtuous than right wing policies, or I wouldn’t put my cross next to them every time I vote. 🤷🏻‍♀️

YABU speak to all those who lost lives due to the IRA, who know those people he invited to the HoP days after the Brighton bomb.

@LizB62A

I've stuck with Labour through mine closures, poll tax imposed on Scotland, rise of SNP nationalism and am well informed on the nuances of politics and the role of propaganda media influences, and I still loathed Corbyn! He is/was awful. Whole of Scotland agreed with me! And most of the North. And 99% of the Jewish community.

You are still in the deluded minority.

It’s your contention that those policies were unworkable, not mine.

No. Its fact. The proposed tax rises woildnt cover JC proposed spending. He had no way to impose a 4 day working week AND make companies still pay people the same.

No way to seize control of broadband companies AND stops charging people (I mean surely left wing policies would be gas, electric and water to be free first) AND increase spending in the NHS AND pay the waspis back. I watched him being interviewed. He admitted it himself. That he couldnt do it all. The WASPIs werent getting their money back. They would probably get a bit each year, if anything.

Not workable.

@churchandstate

But being more left wing than everyone else doesn't make you better and more virtuous than everyone else. Case in point: Stalin

Acting like it does is one f the reason Corbyn supporters are treated with such contempt.

The way you acted on this thread makes it clear you think you are more intelligent and virtuous than everyone else. Well, i'm a centre left doctor, I don't like Corbyn and would have vastly preferred Yvette Copper or David Milliband or Jess Phillips. So, am I a right wing idiot tory becuase I'm not as left wing as you?

AlexanderHalexander

I don’t think I am more virtuous than anybody else. I have flaws aplenty. I think left wing policies are more virtuous than right wing policies.

I believe left wing policies are more virtuous than right wing policies

And that is a complete failure to understand other people’s motives. It’s not a case of goodies versus baddies. It’s not the case that you’re a goodie for voting for free broadband and that someone who voted Tory to Get Brexit Done is a baddie. It means that they have different priorities, and sometimes different values to you, and that’s not a straightforward good/bad thing.

Left wing people are more likely to value tolerance, right wing people are more likely to value family and security. None of those things are more virtuous than the other, they’re just different.

Marleyisme

A manifesto can rarely be implemented in every detail. It is a set of proposals. I don’t believe it’s the case that there was no way to implement most of them. You just wouldn’t have wanted to. And that’s your right. Just as it is my right to disagree with you.

@merrymouse can you elaborate? What you’re saying seems to relate with your own internal narrative.
It’s like I’ve said “ 1+1=2

Yes, you clearly need an explanation, so I will break it down for you.

He’s not anti semetic

He is leader of the party. By ignoring and tolerating anti-semitism in others he has permitted anti-semitism. Please don't pretend it doesn't exist. I have witnessed it (in the context of the Labour Party) myself, not online, but in real life.

Corbyn's spokes people have written off clearly expressed concern about anti-semitism as partisan attacks on Corbyn, just as you are doing now.

as a reason to not vote for him, but then vote for BJ

The results show that Labour lost votes in leave areas (10% drop) and that dissatisfied Remain voters (6% drop) also switched to Green or Lib Dem or just didn't vote. However your immediate assumption is that people concerned about anti-semitism voted Conservative.

It's also 100% certain that some voters concerned about anti-semitism held their noses and stuck with Labour, if for no other reason than that many of the people voicing strong concern about anti-semitism are Labour MPs. However that will have been a vote despite, not for Corbyn.

leads me to believe that people do whatever the media tells them to

Again, assumption that people's concerns about anti-semitism are created by the media, not a reflection of their experience.

most people, at their core, are racist.

You seem to be saying that anybody complaining about anti-semitism in the Labour Party doesn't care about racism in the Conservative Party and is in fact a racist. If you can't see the problem with that, I can't help you.

noblegiraffe

We all have different ideas of what “virtuous” means. My view on that is as valid as yours.

Goodies vs baddies is right, some Corbyn supporters seem like children who cannot appreciate any subtlety.

It would have been much, much better to wake up yesterday to a centrist labour government than to a right wing tory one. Corbyn supporters are one of the reasons we haven't: anyone not left enough or not sycophantic enough was rejcted, so they could have 'pure' socialism. Leaving us fucked for the next 5 years.

@churchandstate would you rather have a right wing or a centre government?

@churchandstate would you rather have a right wing or a centre government?

What kind of a daft question is that?

My view on that is as valid as yours.

And it’s just co-incidence that your view paints yourself as virtuous and other people as less virtuous, isn’t it?

I totally agree - I think he is a decent man & a very principled politician. I think the right wing media have absolutely destroyed him.

It has now become almost unacceptable to like him.

I genuinely don't see how anyone other than a soft Conservative could succeed as a Labour leader, it is very sad.

And it’s just co-incidence that your view paints yourself as virtuous and other people as less virtuous, isn’t it?

For a Maths teacher, logic is in short supply at your place, isn’t it?

I wouldn’t believe something was right - and therefore vote for it - unless I believed it was...right. My opinions on what is right are what they are. I can’t pretend I think their opposites are equally...right.

It was such a solid defeat that I thought that there’d be no question as to the change needed.

It’s strange to find the left threads and posts on here so deaf to it.

*@churchandstate would you rather have a right wing or a centre government?

What kind of a daft question is that? hmm*

Well, since now is the time for reflection, maybe you should consider this:

It was possible to bring the tories down in this election. If people like you had thrown their weight behind a centrist figure popular with voter, Boris could have been beaten. People like yourself (COrbyn supporters) chose not to, and aggressively attacked anyone saying there wa no way COrbyn could win, and it was all foolishness, because it wasn't left wing enough for you, so we get hard right. You made a mistake, and should reflect on it for the future.

On the radio yesterday they made this point: For the last 40 years, the ONLY labour leader to win a general election was Tony Blair.

church I don’t think that people who voted to Get Brexit Done are right, I don’t agree with their politics or view there at all. But I don’t think that them being wrong means that they are bad people or that they voted to Get Brexit Done out of evil motives.

You seem to be equating ‘right’ with ‘morally superior’ and ‘disagreement’ with ‘morally inferior’.

A manifesto can rarely be implemented in every detail. It is a set of proposals. I don’t believe it’s the case that there was no way to implement most of them. You just wouldn’t have wanted to. And that’s your right. Just as it is my right to disagree with you.

Yes. Any business proposal isnt worth anything with out the financials being able to back it up. Solid evidence.

You pitch a business proposal and get the backing, the investment the say 'well actually, theres not enough money to do most that's, you would have commited fraud to get investment.

It sounds like you think a manifesto is just a list of ideals. Like sitting and chats g to your partner about what you woild spend the money on if you won the lottery. In which case the left doenst really exist does it? You think it's an unachievable ideal that never works in practise.

Of course I would love a 4 day week. Free broadband, a better NHS, less poverty etc. However, theres not the money to do this. Nor could JC ever attain it. He knew that.

At no point t have I said you arent entitled to disagree. Not even close. This is a discussion site and thread.

That just sounds like something you say to stop people socialising their opinion. Try and make out they are trying to silence you.

They will never win, and Labour may well be finished completely if they don’t learn from this

This ^^

In many ways it's irrelevant if people still "like" JC or not - he was always unelectable, he helped to make Labour the same and now he's consigned to history as a failure who'll return to snarling from the backbenches

As a variety of previous Labour leaders so clearly recognised, this is all he was ever any good for

YANBU OP.
The media have been appalling in their slander and smears regarding a decent, principled man. I for one, will never watch bbc politics again.

YANBU, I think Corbyn is a good guy, despite his failings.

AlexanderHalexander

But I am not a centrist, and nor is Corbyn. I accept it would have been more convenient to have been a centrist, but by placing my cross in that box I would have been backing centrist policies. I want left wing policies.