To think MN is a Hard Left echo chamber

[DowntownAbby]

And that's why so, so many MNers are baffled that the Conservatives are going to achieve a landslide victory over Labour.

Out there is the real world, there was far less support for Corbyn but most MNers couldn't see what was coming.

UKIP and the National Fronttype parties that should say

Incidentally there are threads on FWR where left wing and right wing women are having very interesting and respectful discussions, punctuated only occasionally by momentum bot ploppers, who are given short shrift.

The 'average Joe' is a centrist. When Labour wins, it's a moderate that gets in, not a hard, Militant-style leftie.

In my city, it's hard-left. They're not 'empathetic', 'decent' people. At all. They're rabid. It's fucking ugly. The posturing, the diatribes, the vitriol. They're all calling each other 'comrade', ffs! We don't live in fucking Russia, knobheads!

I am in the minority and dare not raise my voice lest I'm thrown into a gulag by the Stazi.

I always considered myself a labour supporter, but in my ward, a Labour MP, who was a decent, moderate, tolerant person, who I've met personally, and who has had the backing of the ward for 20+ years, was forced out and replaced by a Momentum shill. This didn't just happen in my ward: it happened all around the country. The Momentum movement fucked the labour party, they took control of all the CLPs, and there was a deliberate policy to make the Labour party more Marxist. But I grew up on Solzhenitsyn, ffs! I know how your lovely 'socialist' Utopia sinks into totalitarianism, and despite thinking that the 'idiot' working class would be happy with the 'bread and circuses' of free broadband, we're saying the same thing:

Fuck Marx, Fuck Lenin, and Fuck Stalin.

UK politics isn’t extreme

We don’t go too far to the right (and this government isn’t far right) or too far to the left. That’s why Tony Blair was so successful. We are a conservative country with a little c that’s
why labour have to work so hard to get into power. You work with what you have in politics not some dreamy ideology

Majority on here are to the left and remain and quite a large number live in a bubble. I A few far left though have been quieter since yesterday

I was just saying to DH tonight how most of the people I follow on Instagram are quite left leaning and/or live in London and trendy parts of the south east. I love mn but would agree that there is general hostility towards anyone who votes conservative or is a leaver. I'm surprised at how shocked and dismayed everyone online seems by the result because to me it was a given that this would be the result. So yes, I agree with you that it is an echo chamber.

@PettyContractor The poster was discussing left-wing voters, not right. I’ve never met a a left-wing voter fitting that description - plenty of right though.

I can see why people would be annoyed to be labelled as a sweeping statement as 'thick, selfish, murderous cunts' (really horrible)' but I think some people are very angry at how a government in a well off country like the U.K. can repeatedly make life hard for the disabled.

Feelings can all spiral out of control. I am quite worried about the mental health of a friend of mine who really feels that Tory voters hate her with a passion and they need to all fuck off and keeps writing this on Facebook and saying she feels like she's having a break down. She's a EU citizen, married to a Brit and has a disabled child. She lives in a very pro Brexit area. She really feels hated in the U.K. and she can't even choose to return to the safety of her home country because her kids father won't agree for them to go.

As I've already said, I've come across Tory voters who think child poverty doesn't exist. OTOH I personally have never come across people who don't have a job or don't want to work, which is something often quoted by right wingers. Labour voters get accused of 'wanting everything for free'.

Maybe we all need to stop making sweeping statements about people who don't vote the same way as us 🤷🏻‍♀️ it's a very emotive time because Brexit has caused a lot of anger and division, it still hasn't been sorted out.

The one thing to take away from this election is that if we had another referendum people would still vote leave. As a remainer I'm so sad about this but I think we have to accept that we are going to have to leave even though it could mean a lot of hardship for us all. The longer this goes on, the more division is stirred up.

sammybins, that is true and it is a shame for moderate Labour voters. It has always been a problem in the Labour party - how left wing to go. Labour came out of the wilderness when Blair took it further away from extreme left. I can also remember when I was a little girl Wilson being Prime Minister who was ntottoo extreme.

If Labour want to get elected in 5 years' time then they will need to m ove back to the middle of the road policies that tend to get parties elected in the UK. I am a Conservative and Boris J's party is quite high tax, high spending (so nothing like my preference but better than Labour) which is probably why he got in.

The reality is that labour are not that left wing interns of size of government, unless you think that most of Europe’s social democrat governments are really left wing.

I have read it argued that the Conservatives are more left wing if you are middle class (maybe household income 50k to 100k total income) as the cost reductions under labour (tuition fees, free internet, school lunches etc) would outweigh the additional tax burden.

The problems really lie with the top 1% of earners who are increasingly out earning the rest of the population. I don’t think many actually resent real wealth creators such as Branson, Dyson etc but there is an increasing resentment of ‘crony’ capitalists. These are basically employees earning a ridiculously high salary but taking minimal (if any) risk with their own money. A lot of this wealth (board members, bankers, management consultants etc) comes from a hidden tax on people’s pensions (think of the companies that fail to grow and pay no dividends but pension funds invest in year after year).

The banking bailout in 2008 really crystallised this resentment and arguably account for Trump and Brexit (I think they do). Bankers continued to be paid 200s of 1000s and in some cases millions even though their employers were effectively insolvent, and people on less than £50k had to pay increased taxes to make this happen.

Something like 90% of the post 2008 growth has accrued to the top 1% of earners. This is not sustainable.

The problem with labour was rhetoric and lack of trust. Most middle classes did not trust Corbyn to push far further left than he spoke of and to ‘punish’ the middle classes. Anti Semitism was also (rightly) a major factor.

Ultimately, unless we feel an identification with and a responsibility to some sort of ‘society’ both the right and left wing will milk their economic model for self gain and there will be little to choose between them.

Thank God we have a secret ballot!

With regard to the "Political Compass" web site, I hopped over there and looked at the questionnaire, the very first question is:-

If economic globalisation is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of trans-national corporations.

There are so many things wrong with this question that it would take literally pages to explain, and justify the explanations , so I've given up trying to here. I could not answer this question because any answer implies accepting the built-in premises, which are clearly from the mind of a lefty.

It is regrettable that many personal fortunes are made by people who simply manipulate money and contribute nothing to their society.

If I "disagree" I'm saying that I think it's a good thing for people to make money that way, if I "agree" then I'm categorising myself as someone with simplistic left-wing prejudices. Again, the premise of the question is utter bollocks, it is assuming as unarguable fact something that only exists in the mental landscape of a left-winger.

Most people I know feel so frustrated because they didn't want a tory government, or a Corbyn labour really but were backed into voting labour as the only option because they didn't want Tory.

Our political system needs reform, I've never felt so frustrated and disenfranchised by my lack of choice.

Alan Johnson’s address to Jon Landsman On election night nailed why so many people find the current “Labour party” repellant. I stop clicking on the political threads on MN during the election campaign because they were just voiced by childish and boorish momentum bots hoping for a rise . I will never consider voting for Labour if they’re championed by are the likes of Owen Jones and Ash Saker.

That’s interesting PettyContractor. I’ve tried a couple of times to do the political compass and I always feel as if I need a strong cup of coffee and a long discussion with someone just to get my head around the questions.

Despite all the spending promises Labour has lost the confidence of the traditional generation after generation of labour voters. I hope Johson takes this opportunity to address some of the needs that these people have struggled with. To all the people who talk unity and togetherness in the UK but are foul to anyone who has another opinion, please, lets put it all to bed and pull together. Whatever you voted, this is our government. Support it to to what we want it to do. Dont just rail and say you will never accept it. Learn from history. The rest of Europe is having similar turbulence so dont blame Brexit. Now that we have a start poing, businesses can move on and we can start to build, and yes it will take a long time

Take it up with the academics at the Political Compass website

Political compass is run by a leftwing journo

You think MN is hard left?

Political compass is run by a leftwing journo

Unsurprising
It’s easy to see it is skewed

Alan Johnson’s address to Jon Landsman On election night nailed why so many people find the current “Labour party” repellant

This, absolutely. Until the Labour Party cleans Momentum out, once and for all, it will never be elected again.

All I’m hearing on the left threads is won’t listen, won’t change.

Theres a protest going on outside Parliament about a legitimate vote

Noodlenose - when you say legitimate vote, is this protest about another referendum?

Couldn't agree more. Such personal attacks coming from some Labour voters on here, it's disgusting behaviour. And they wonder why they lost? This forum seems to be over represented by the left.

Until the Labour Party cleans Momentum out, once and for all, it will never be elected again

I believe you're right, but the question remains of whether they'll do it - and for that matter, if Momentum will be prepared to go

Time will tell I guess ...

Some excellent confirmation bias here. Anyone who disagrees with you is a bully living in an echo chamber, anyone who agrees with you and says horrible things to/about those who disagree is a plain-speaking hero... There has been plenty of childish nastiness from individuals on both sides. And I find that MN reflects the general population in that overall it's about 50-50 leave/remain, tories/not tories.

@sammybins One reason my mum left the Labour Party was because she got sick of people calling each other 'comrade' at conferences. It's so cringey.

Moomin, I feel like your mate. I've seen some vile comments from Tories about disabled people, people on benefits, and the 'joke' that all Labour voters are unemployed wasters, and I do take it personally and worry that they all think I'm a worthless piece of shit, even though I do have a job. I get terrified of being too ill to work. I also have MH issues and genuine triggers but I'm embarrassed to admit I have them because triggers have just become a joke to the right now. Or the idea that mentally ill people are just lazy whining malingerers who need fresh air. I wish it was that simple.