Aibu to think the break up of the UK is inevitable now?

[KenDodd]

I think it is.

Europe has indicated that they would be happy to accept Scotland as an independent nation. Why not seems to their take on it. Boris has no mandate in Scotland and neither do Labour any more. The groundwork has been done by the Nats over a considerable number of years and last night’s fabulous result is testament to that.

Happyspud - I meant no offence re the “Irish or northern irish” comment I was trying (clearly badly) to differentiate between people from republic of Ireland and people from Northern Ireland I’m happy to be educated as to the correct language to use? I have several friends in real life from both countries and am actually of Irish descent myself - 3/4 Republic of Ireland 1/4 from Northern Ireland.

Sadly I’ve yet to visit either which I’d love to do.

Absolutely understand ROI has a say re a possible united ireland too. But I wasn’t wanting to assume they/you would be against that.

I voted labour yesterday not snp but I’d vote yes in indyref2

I'm Irish, living in Scotland.

I've very sad about the result, but I the one upside is Scottish Independence and Irish reunification is now much more likely, though not necessarily inevitable.

@Figmentofmyimagination.
Ireland was invaded and colonised by England, Scotland was not. The union was volitional for the Scottish elites of the early 18th century, not the case for us irish. Under British rule, Ireland experienced the destruction of our economy, language, environment, experienced widespread famine, emigration, various massacres, and destitution. Our religion was severely repressed, and above all, there was a constant effort to have us believe we were stupid, lawless (because we didn't like Englands laws!), feckless, lazy subhuman aboriginals(the word that was used).

Also, from 1922-1970 Northern Irish Catholics were kept in apartheid conditions, and before the IRA was any sort of a force, the Parachute Regiment murdered teenagers in the streets of Derry, among other massacres.

So, alas, given sustained brutality for 800 years, at times, some Irish people responded with violence. I wish my forefathers hadn't, but it's pretty inevitable.

Scotland also experienced some brutality at the hands of the English, eg the Highland clearances, but nothing like above.

This explains the difference. Irish violence was a reflection of British brutality.

@themental ridiculous even when we were planning the move anyway and it's been delayed for a few months due to a major family bereavement and the financial hit we've had to take?? Maybe Scotland wouldn't like an extra nurse and a teacher-type-person with myriad additional skills, then. Oh dear, we'll just have to go somewhere else then.

Our other option is the Netherlands, which again, we've been talking about for some time now. If we're going to encounter dislike and hostility in Scotland we might as well remove our carcases to mainland Europe while we still can.

Ireland was invaded and colonised by England, Scotland was not.

You really need to revisit Scottish history.

Still no!

And England was invaded by Scotland.

And retaliated with the Highland Clearances...

I cant see there being Scottish Independence.
The Tory Government still have to authorise the Scottish Parliament to hold another independence referendum and Boris has said today he will not agree to this.
So however much the SNP's wants a referendum unless its authorised by the Tory Government it won't happen.

From ROI and no one I know would vote for a united Ireland. It brings a whole host of economical problems we cannot manage. I hope the Irish government continue to reject calls for border polls for now. It's too soon.

@cannycat20 Never once claimed you weren't wanted or insinuated you'd face dislike or hostility.

On the contrary, I'd say Scotland was one of the most welcoming parts of the UK.

What gets my goat a wee bit is people all of a sudden thinking they'll move here to escape brexit & the tories, without even understanding the struggle many scots have faced for years. Like we're some sort of socialist utopia. It reminds me of our lovely American fans with their mist covered meadows and kilts and fucking "bonnie wee lass" and oh I just luuuuv scaatland.

Really? You love the "junkies"? And the high rise flats? You love how Glasgow was the murder capital of europe? You love being told you're a financial drain on the rest of the UK? You love your vote making fuck all difference? In the words of Mark Renton:

It's SHITE being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fucking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY.

I'm joking with that one, but really the only thing that we've got going for us is that we don't vote Tory, and that came from YEARS of being shat on in every way imaginable.

And you did say yourself:

"We pretty much all wanted the United Kingdom to remain united; now, I'm wishing to God Scotland had voted for independence then."

So........ you were happy for us to remain being shat on by a tory government we did not want, but only until England voted Brexit?

I can take that attitude from a Scottish person who sees this as the final nail in the coffin for us being shat on... who listened to the promises of Westminster and watched them break them... but as a person who isn't Scottish, and hasn't had the years of being shat on... It makes you sound like you only want to move to Scotland and "knock on doors for independence" because you want to escape Brexit and the tories. Exactly like all those people flouncing off to Europe with their Irish passports.

I maintain it's a bit ridiculous 🤷🏻‍♀️.

That said, if you've always wanted to live here then fair doos... Fàilte gu Alba 🙂

• I cant see there being Scottish Independence. The Tory Government still have to authorise the Scottish Parliament to hold another independence referendum and Boris has said today he will not agree to this. So however much the SNP's wants a referendum unless its authorised by the Tory Government it won't happen.*

And that comment right there is exactly why Independence feels inevitable right now.

The SNP should stick this comment on a leaflet and post it through every door in the country.

"Democratically elected party cannot fulfil manifesto promise unless authorised to do so by party who won in England".

Seriously 😂😂😂 you're a nationalists wet dream.

It can't come soon enough - what Boris Johnson and Tories want, Scotland does not

@themental, I know, I did have my tongue in my cheek a bit. And see, that sense of humour thing in your post is one of the reasons I love Scotland.

For what it's worth, I applied to 2 unis in Scotland for my degree (you know, back when dinosaurs still roamed the earth and you could only choose 5 options), and when I did my teacher training one of the reasons I did it at Newcastle (apart from the family ties and having grown up there) was that, for my subject, the teacher training was accepted as fitting the curriculum in Scotland as well as in England. So yes, I always have wanted to live in Scotland. Unfortunately, however, life, and men, got in the way for a bit....

And oh yes, I hear what you're saying about Glasgow, since that's where several relatives and old schoolfriends live and work. I'm also well aware that those lovely islands that the tourist board show as the face of Scotland are not always idyllic when you live there, and I know very well that Edinburgh has a dark side all its own once you're away from the glamour of Princes Street and the tourist traps....

And no, I absolutely do not think the behaviour towards Scotland of successive (mainly Tory) governments has been acceptable. Far from it. Growing up in Newcastle, we got shat on quite a lot as well....

What I was really trying to get across is that when we move up, we will do our very best to contribute to Scotland's economy and success and the community we move to.

(Any suggestions on how to cope with the midges when we do get there, though? They LOVE to bite me and I'm not sure you can get beekeepers' suits in a size 14-16 petite....)

"Oh dear, we'll just have to go somewhere else then."

You don't sound deeply committed to the idea really. Just another spiteful person who thinks Scottish people should be desperate for anyone to move up to...what? Help us out?

Agree with everything mental says. Scotland is not some socialist utopia where we welcome all and any leftover Corbynistas. In many rural areas, English people moving up in droves to enjoy our quaint lochs and heelan coos have priced local people out of the market. And people are pissed off about it and yes there is prejudice against the English in many of those communities. Is it fair? Maybe not, but that's the truth.

Especially when those same people seem to expect us to be grateful for their presence - "I pay taxes here, I contribute to the economy, I'm educated". Big fucking deal, frankly.

Come with the right attitude, no problem, but start giving it the big I am and people will think you're a twat.

@WatchingTheMoon That's why we will try to make sure we move somewhere that we are not going to be a PITA, and where the skills we do have will be of some use. (Last time I looked there was certainly a lack of nurses with a couple of decades' experience specialising in elderly care [one member of the household]; though I grant you that there are currently plenty of Scottish teachers looking for work, even in shortage subjects, which this would be.)

I also hear you on the being priced out issue. I've lived in areas where local people have been priced out by incomers. I've been a blow-in, in more than one location, but as someone who rented from a local landlord, not someone that was ever in a position to price anyone else out of the market or send house prices ludicrously sky high.

And if my first post came across as arrogant I'm sorry; that's not my intention at all. I hope my previous post indicates that I have put some thought into moving to Scotland, it's not as sudden as it may seem on the surface.

@Graphista, I wasn’t offended and knew what you meant but you’d cause huge offence to all the ‘Irish’ in Northern Ireland. Even my non-political, kind and open in-laws who very strongly identify as ‘Irish’ and have the passport to back that up. I am raising my kids as ‘Northern Irish’ which weirdly here is associated with the Unionist side but I’m not having any of that shit for my kids and tell them mummy is from Ireland and they are from Northern Ireland, a different but excellent country. Both are on the Island of Ireland but NI is Part of the U.K. I don’t feel the ‘Irish’ here are culturally, politically or literally Irish here but if I ever said that out loud, even to my husband, there’d be a lot of upset and hurt. So I’m just focusing on ‘Northern Ireland is a country and that’s where we live and are from’ to quietly change the nuance of it all from my kids onwards.

My DH always responds Ireland when asked where we’re from and I always say NI. It kind of annoys me because it’s deliberately misleading but then I didn’t have my friends fathers shot and killed or bomb evacuations in my primary school growing up.

It’s time to change the narrative and not just accept the facts but embrace NI as a country by both sides.

As an English person, I do think the SNP have a mandate for another referendum.

However they need to be absolutely clear on their plans for the English/Scottish border.

Boris has sold NI down the river so the rest of GB can move out of alignment with the EU. This means that an independent Scotland, in the EU, would almost certainly mean some kind of border infrastructure is needed, with possible tariffs.

As Scotland would be seen as an existing member of the EU, and there is no equivalent of the Good Friday Agreement to uphold, the EU is not likely to be as flexible as it was with NI.

Ultimately, independence is actually more difficult now than it was at the time of the last referendum, when both countries would have been aligned with the EU. A border between England and Scotland would impact businesses on both sides, but I suspect that Scotland would be worse off.

As the Brexers will tell you, it doesn't matter if your country will be poorer, or your trade deals will be worse, or your international standing will be reduced, or if none of the promised benefits are true. The will of the people must be obeyed (or, at least, the interpretation that the government of the day chooses).

Boris is not in a convincing position to try to imprison a nation that wants to leave.