Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

DC15 wants to identify as female

677 replies

FrogInAHat23 · 10/12/2019 13:22

I'm still struggling to figure out how I feel about this, to be honest. DS (now DD?) wants to identify as female. They are 15. I fully subscribe to the 'do no harm' school of thinking, but it has raised so many questions for me. Saying they identify as female isn't hurting anyone (although there will be some close-minded individuals who are offended by that, which I don't think should be a barrier). However, what do I do if they say they want to use women's toilets or changing rooms (esp if a unisex version isn't available)? They identify as female (and is very effeminate, to be fair). We haven't discussed the whole sex change op situation yet, and I'm wary of bringing it up because I don't want to put ideas in their head (given the risks etc I'd rather they didn't!). DC has ASD and is very young (mentally) for their age. I've been buying them makeup and very feminine clothing, which they wear around the house. I had hoped it would just be a case of having a DS who was more feminine with feminine tastes, but it seems not.

I think my feeling is that, while DC has male genitalia then they ought to stick with unisex and mens changing rooms / toilets. I think. Argh.

What do you think? I know trans stuff is a hot topic at the moment, this isn't me trying to get a response from people. This is the genuine situation I find myself in currently!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 10/12/2019 19:28

Mumsnet is unbelievable hateful towards trans people and especially Trans women!

No, it really isn't. Mumsnet IS, surprisingly, very supportive of women. Please don't confuse the two

Anyone else not picking up on the complete contradiction and utter irony of this reply?
I mean...... what?!
Ok.....

CodenameVillanelle · 10/12/2019 19:47

@FrogInAHat23 I also know (as I have an intersex friend) that gender isn't a binary thing (although for most it is)

What do you mean by this? Your other posts seem to indicate that you understand that sex is not gender but you then say that 'gender' isn't binary because you 'have an intersex friend'. Intersex has nothing to do with gender or trans at all. It's a range of developmental disorders that affect male and female people in specific ways.

Bezalelle · 10/12/2019 19:53

Anyone else not picking up on the complete contradiction and utter irony of this reply?

No. Can you explain?

Brimful · 10/12/2019 19:59

Anyone else not picking up on the complete contradiction and utter irony of this reply?

What is the contradiction?

CodenameVillanelle · 10/12/2019 20:00

Yeah I don't see a contradiction myself?

DowntownAbby · 10/12/2019 20:02

Anyone else not picking up on the complete contradiction and utter irony of this reply?

Yep, not getting it myself either.

JAPAB · 10/12/2019 20:28

My response was to say that if we aren't using biology, then you are using stereotypes.

Yes I understood that to be what you meant. And your assumption that a trans person is a trans person only because of liking dresses or make-up (or anyother stereotype example you could have given) would be an example of what I meant by "...And possibly throw in a few assumptions about the OP's child. The sorts of assumptions that are commonly made about trans people."

Biology is not an ideology. It is an observable fact.

Yes but it is up to us whether or not we use a particular word to denote an aspect of it. People's moods can be an observable fact, But it was up to us to stop using gay to mean happy wasn't it. Ideology comes in when you start advocating for a change, or resist the change others want.

QueenofPain · 10/12/2019 20:30

OP, MN is absolutely not the right place for decent, sensitive and empathic advice on this subject.

Bezalelle · 10/12/2019 20:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Trewser · 10/12/2019 20:33

I don't understand a word of that japab

Bizawit · 10/12/2019 20:52

Omg will people stop saying that posters have offered useful and helpful advice. The majority of the responses have been ignorant and transphobic Sad

theflushedzebra · 10/12/2019 20:58

What is ignorant or transphobic about saying that many teens feel confused about their gender, but go on to live perfectly happy lives, without transitioning?

What is ignorant or transphobic about saying that drugs and surgery is not necessarily the answer?

ItsChristmaaaaaaaaas · 10/12/2019 20:58

If you see it, report it. Questioning or advising caution is not transphobic.

CodenameVillanelle · 10/12/2019 21:03

Yes japab we get it, you think that we have moved on from the outdated concept of using woman to mean 'adult human female' and should now use it to mean 'person of either sex with womany feels' but the problems are that a) most people don't agree with you and b) actual female women will still exist even if you steal our words and we will still have needs that are different from you people with penises.
I wonder one day will you realise that women won't actually let you do what you're trying to do. If you would just accept that sooner rather than later it would save us all a lot of bother.

ActualHornist · 10/12/2019 21:48

@JAPAB

Yeah, no.

Come back when you can formulate something that isn’t meaningless word salad.

@Bizawit quote it please.

Thinkingabout1t · 11/12/2019 00:34

Lovemusic OMG those ballet classes! I was eventually expelled because I skived off so often. Well done for taking football instead loads more fun, I bet, and you don't ruin your feet.

Christmaaaas - "a male born child of 12 starting puberty blockers on the NHS because mum said they ‘knew’ they were a girl from 3 years old. Child says they will have a womb transplant later."
Yeah, just pop in a womb and zip it back up. Of course a 12-year-old hasn't got a clue. His fantasy future is so obviously unrealistic that any responsible adult would refuse to put him on drugs. As you say - oh my ....

JAPAB · 11/12/2019 03:07

Trewser T basically I was pointing out that a lot of people make the assumption that a trans person is only trans because they realised that they liked things stereotypically associated with the opposite sex. And that this would be assumed here.

And I suggested to another poster that such people will have an agenda to promote this view., and will basically advise the OP 'you need to convince him that he only thinks he is a girl because he realised that he likes dresses and pink, and therefore he concluded that he must be female.'

FWIW I agree with those who say 'let him work it through for himself' without pushing either that agenda on him, or the alternative one of 'OK then, I'll get you an appointment in the castration clinic first thing tommorow'.

SD1978 · 11/12/2019 03:18

This is always hard. Does he think he's a girl because he doesn't follow the stereotype media portrayal of 'a man' and as is already effeminate thinks therefore he must not be a man? This seems to be the linear thinking in a lot of the ROGD that is happening. They are at a changing age- body is not following the typical 'male' path if they are effeminate- maybe engage and have them engage with who and what they are, instead of trying to be something different?

ItsChristmaaaaaaaaas · 11/12/2019 07:15

I’ve been pondering Freud (as you do) and the whole penis envy thing. This was proposed as perfectly normal part of a girls development. I really don’t think Freud considered vulva envy as part of a boys development - maybe it is?

OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg · 11/12/2019 08:33

Have any of the people plopping in all “ermagod OP, you’ll get no help here, MN is sooooooo transphobic” actually read the thread? The thread full of advice to listen to the OP’s son, to explore further what’s driving this, to support him and be aware of the part his ASD might be playing? The thread reassuring the OP that for 80% of teenagers, this is just a phase? The thread containing links to helpful resources?

Because honestly, shrieking “transphobia” in the middle of that just makes you look ridiculous and incapable of basic reading comprehension, which is going to convince no one of your ability to judge whether something actually is transphobic or not.

ItsChristmaaaaaaaaas · 11/12/2019 08:35

It’s in Page 1 of the playbook.

Bizawit · 11/12/2019 08:53

@theflushedzebra

Depending on context there may be nothing transphobic about saying those things. (Although not I sure I agree at all that “many teens feel confused about their gender”, feeling confused about one’s gender is a fairly minority problem. Also btw trans people are no more confused about their gender than others, it’s just a different gender identification.).

What I have seen on this thread , however, is The majority of posters making statements that (either directly or indirectly) imply that trans people don’t exist, that being trans is a fallacy/ a lie/ not possible/ incoherent/ illegitimate etc etc etc. That’s not helpful advice, that’s ignorant and transphobic.

ItsChristmaaaaaaaaas · 11/12/2019 09:09

No one says the don’t exist - but question the social aspect of the increasingly rise in children presenting as ‘trans’.

AloneLonelyLoner · 11/12/2019 09:15

My DD has ASD and is very androgynous. I have however been very careful to steer her away from what is increasingly becoming a trend of encouraging children (and parents) to effectively mutilate themselves in trying to be something they aren't. They feel different and I think their gender sometimes takes the hit.

My DD says now she is a lesbian and I wholeheartedly support that and it also shows that whether she appears androgynous or not, she is accepting of her femaleness.

You are a very supportive mum and I applaud that. Please do avoid Stonewall, Mermaids or other sources of help which will lead you and your child down a rabbit hole which is unnecessary right now.

Vis a vis toilets, biologically your child has a penis and is male, he mustn't use female toilets or changing rooms. Ever. It's unacceptable.