DC15 wants to identify as female

[FrogInAHat23]

I'm still struggling to figure out how I feel about this, to be honest. DS (now DD?) wants to identify as female. They are 15. I fully subscribe to the 'do no harm' school of thinking, but it has raised so many questions for me. Saying they identify as female isn't hurting anyone (although there will be some close-minded individuals who are offended by that, which I don't think should be a barrier). However, what do I do if they say they want to use women's toilets or changing rooms (esp if a unisex version isn't available)? They identify as female (and is very effeminate, to be fair). We haven't discussed the whole sex change op situation yet, and I'm wary of bringing it up because I don't want to put ideas in their head (given the risks etc I'd rather they didn't!). DC has ASD and is very young (mentally) for their age. I've been buying them makeup and very feminine clothing, which they wear around the house. I had hoped it would just be a case of having a DS who was more feminine with feminine tastes, but it seems not.

I think my feeling is that, while DC has male genitalia then they ought to stick with unisex and mens changing rooms / toilets. I think. Argh.

What do you think? I know trans stuff is a hot topic at the moment, this isn't me trying to get a response from people. This is the genuine situation I find myself in currently!

[ActualHornist]

@HuntIdeas it’s exactly the opposite.

A gender critical therapist as opposed to a therapist that will just affirm everything he says. Yes you’re a girl if you say you are, of course you can use women’s facilities etc.

A GC therapist will get the child to explore the feelings they have - like my earlier comments:

I would be encouraging some critical thinking while looking for a gender critical therapist. You want to use the girls loos - how do you think the girls might feel about this? Wearing women’s clothing doesn’t make you female - why do you equate womanhood your clothing and make up?

[Iamdobby63]

OP please ask for this to be moved to LGBT children.

There is some good advice given, particularly the issue with ASD, do they already have a therapist?

I honestly think this is one of the hardest issues for parents, this must be giving you tremendous stress. I’m sorry I don’t know the ‘right answer’ if there is indeed one. My sons best friend identifies as male and that has been very challenging but he is happier now with some acceptance from family members.

[Bluerussian]

Most of us are not unkind or judgemental on this thread, FroginAHat. We may not understand it all but we do understand and care about how you and your son feel and want to offer you support. There's no reason not to post. I honestly can't imagine what it would be like to be in that situation but I do know it can't be easy.

Try to be a bit laid back about it and encourage son to be interested in other things, he is still so young.

I want to say, "God bless", but that expression can just trip off the tongue without much thought or meaning. Do take care, you're obviously a lovely mum.

[FishCanFly]

i'd seriously filter his internet communications. Very likely he's being groomed/brainwashed by a very dodgy community.

[EwwSprouts]

DC no doubt feel different and that's part of being a teen. Show your DC videos of the make up wearing men of the 1980s. Boy George, Marilyn, Bowie. Show them them it's been done before & is fine to wear what they want without having to even contemplate drugs/surgery or adopting a label.

[JAPAB]

I'm afraid that people will come along just to attack your child and call them a predator/similar.

They probably won't, but they will want to assert their ideology. Which is to retain the traditional definitions of man / woman / boy / girl. And possibly throw in a few assumptions about the OP's child. The sorts of assumptions that are commonly made about trans people.

Anyway, I think the best the OP can do is avoid the ideology-dispute and just concentrate on the practicalities. There are good reasons why some things should be split by chromosomes. The OP can just explain them if it comes up.

[ItsChristmaaaaaaaaas]

Bless him - Marilyn... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_(singer)

[Ihaventgottimeforthis]

Being trans is about identifying with stereotypes normally associated with the opposite sex though. So you do have a DC who likes to express in a feminine manner.
I think you need to support your DC in expressing the way they want to, you cannot force them to be a certain person. However, you can explain the difference between sex and gender identity, and their responsibility to be respectful and considerate to people around them, as they would expect the same back.
Hopefully you are getting some support with the ASD and you can explore whether this is influencing their gender dysphoria.

[Ibleedibreedibreaatfeed]

I went through a phase like this, wanting to be a man but i only got diagnosed with asd late into my thirties. Im quite glad im not a teen now as i might get pushed into a false idea of needing to be a trans man. However if your son feels like exploring his gender, let him do makeup clothes etc. But do not let him use single sex female toilets. Seek the advice of cahms get him to explore his feelings and understanding it moght be a phase it might not. But proper neutral support is needed. Most of the charities have a very vested interest and bias. Bbc radio 4 did a great show about people who have had surgery and invasive drugs but were diagnosed as asd later on. And realized that it was underlying cognitive issues that were the issue not their bodies. Its easy to fixate on an specific solution. Look up gender bending queers and other 70-80's popstars to see how you don't need to jump ahead into im automatically trans. Check for bullying, or perhaps not wanting to accept he might be gay or bi as well. The internet is a double edged sword here. Best wishes, we arent all a den of vipers. Unless you mention the term " sloppy seconds"

[KatieAlcock]

You might want to read this piece I have written about children's understanding of sex and gender. The ability to understand this constancy of sex is exactly the kind of thinking (i.e. thinking about things that are not black and white) that is VERY hard for children with ASD.

medium.com/@katieja/young-children-reality-sex-and-gender-3421f4f165f1

[Whatsnewpussyhat]

They probably won't, but they will want to assert their ideology. Which is to retain the traditional definitions of man / woman / boy / girl.

The definitions of man/woman/boy/girl are based on facts and biology. This is not an ideology.

Thinking that people can have feelings which cause them to be something they are not and cannot ever possibly become, on the other hand, is an ideology. A belief.

[thatdamnwoman]

It might really help people understand this issue better if we were all able to be clearer about the distinction between sex and gender and use the words appropriately.

Your sex is determined by your chromosomes: XX for female, XY for male and every cell in your body carries those sex markers. You are male or female from conception and your sex markers are present in your brain as well as your body. You are you, through and through. There are no boy brains and girl brains, just you in your own individual glory. You can't change your sex.

Gender is about the sexual stereotypes that male and female people are expected and encouraged to conform to by society. Put a baby in a blue babygro and complete strangers will comment what a big strong boy he is. Put the same baby in a pink babygro and people will comment what a beautiful, quiet girl she is. It starts there and it goes on throughout our lives. That's gender. Gender fashions change. In the 18th century and the 1970s men wore long hair and make-up and heels. In the Victorian era boy babies were dressed in pink. In the 70s women like me had men's haircuts and wore dungarees and Doc Martens. The men in make-up were still men: the women in dungarees were still women.

I know it's obvious but the confusion drives me mad!

[EagleVisionSquirrelWork]

Interesting first post.

I imagine OP has namechanged for privacy.

OP, obviously you need to be supportive, but my advice is to be wary of swallowing the orthodoxy uncritically and to think very, very carefully before seeing a gender dysphoria counsellor or therapist, who will most likely push a diagnosis on to your child rather than properly exploring what is going on. Better to educate yourself by reading some of the less hysterical trans threads here, and then talking together as a family.

Gender dysphoria is too often a diagnosis of first resort rather than last, and is an expression imo of the fact that human beings naturally fail to fit exactly the rigid gender roles that our society is obsessed with, and that teenagers - particularly autistic ones - naturally tend to assume something is wrong with them rather than society, feelings amplified massively by the slew of extreme transactivism material on the internet.

[user1471510720]

This trans thing is Political, only Political, it’s been designed by the far left to bring disorder to the Country and to ultimately bring Socialism and then Communism into this Country by identity Politics. You may thing this is way over the top but it is the truth and was designed in the late 60’s/70’ and 80’s.

The left dominates the education system in the UK and are fully on board with all this crap.

That you think their are closed minded individuals on this subject unfortunately makes you a pawn in their game.
Use your brain for goodness sake, a male is a male, a boy a boy and a girl a girl. It always has been and always will.

[ActualHornist]

Which is to retain the traditional definitions of man / woman / boy / girl

Oh I see, so saying you're a girl not because of biology but because you wear make up and skirts isn't that? How insulting.

Do you have some sort of alert for mumsnet @JAPAB? I only ever see you on these threads asserting something ridiculous.

[drspouse]

user I think you might want to read the Morning Star before you say that.

[NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace]

Mumsnet is unbelievable hateful towards trans people and especially Trans women!

No, it really isn't. Mumsnet IS, surprisingly, very supportive of women. Please don't confuse the two.

[pugparty]

If this isn't a goady trollpost planned to bring the frothers out, then I urge you to abandon this post and contact Mermaids charity.

[Punxsutawney]

I wonder if your Ds's autism is playing a bigger part in this than you think. As a mother of a recently diagnosed autistic teenager the lack of care, support and help for autistic young people is appalling.

Autistic teenagers are quite a vulnerable group and we certainly don't care about their needs enough in this country.

[FrogInAHat23]

Thank you so much for all your replies. This isn't my first post - I did name change.

I posted in AIBU for a broad range of views. I was fully aware of the risks of doing so, but I wanted a broad spectrum of opinions. Reading them all has helped me understand how I feel, and has given me the language to talk to DC about it (as I hoped it would, as someone fairly new to all this).

DC and I haven't had the opportunity to have a proper conversation about this yet, as it was said to me immediately before they had to go to school (!!) and to be honest I wanted to figure out how I felt about it before we sat down and talked about it. I think my main concern is that DC wants to identify as female to somehow legitimise being effeminate, but that just isn't necessary (great suggestion RE role models, Bowie etc). What I want most of all is for DC to accept they are in the right body, and just fine as they are. I don't believe one can change sex, but there is surgery available so that one might look more feminine (I don't want DC to feel they need this route, I want them to accept their body as is, but I have to be supportive if they want it). I also know (as I have an intersex friend) that gender isn't a binary thing (although for most it is). In DC's case they are male (sex) but behave in a feminine way (gender). I want to stress the difference between sex and gender to them later (and that self-identifying as female doesn't mean you get access to female-only spaces). I want to know why they want to identify as female, of course, and will find out.

Thanks again! Just talking it all through and reading your replies has helped enormously.

[Northernparent68]

I have n’t read the whole thread but please go on transgender trend on twitter

[OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg]

If this isn't a goady trollpost planned to bring the frothers out, then I urge you to abandon this post and contact Mermaids charity.

Please don't contact Mermaids. They follow the affirmation policy and will often try to fast-track youngsters onto pathways involving puberty blockers. They were responsible for putting a former friend with a transgender child in touch with a doctor operating out of Spain after being struck off in the UK, who is now prescribing the teenager in question off-label hormonal drugs on a long-term basis when there is no research to suggest these drugs are safe for long-term use. I am genuinely worried that a young person is now at serious risk of being left permanently sterile.

OP, I second the recommendation to do 'watchful waiting' - 80% of teenagers who are not medicated with puberty-blockers reconcile with their birth sex post-puberty, and I believe the figure is even higher for boys - and to keep the lines of communication open between you and your DS. Transgender Trend is a good, rational resource for accessing further information - much better than Mermaids who are totally bought into the 'blue brain / pink brain' nonsense.

[Ibleedibreedibreaatfeed]

Good luck frog and let us know how you get on x

[Ihaventgottimeforthis]

That sounds ideal OP, good luck, I hope your DC finds happiness & confidence and security and I'm sure they will with your support.

[Thinkingabout1t]

OP, please don't be put off by hostile responses -- some people are offering good advice here.

Teenagers who think they are transgender are much more likely to be autistic. Or being bullied at school. Or they have suffered abuse in the past. Or they are gay but not yet feeling comfortable about it. Or they just haven't come to terms with the normal changes their body is going through. These are all common things that can make a child feel alienated. They're not 'born in the wrong body'!

'Gender identity' relies on outdated stereotypes such as Girls like pink frilly things and Boys like sport. If you don't believe these myths, the whole transgender ideology falls apart.

Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria (ROGD) is a whole new health problem, fuelled by social media and school cliques.

Mumsnet is a good place to talk through issues like this. Inspired Teen Therapy is a useful blog by a therapist. Parents of ROGD Kids is another useful site.

Transgender Trend is also very helpful. It's run by parents who are concerned about the transing of children and new policies based on subjective ideas of ‘gender’ rather than the biological reality of sex.

Unfortunately, better-known organisations such as Mermaids and Stonewall, which are transgender lobby groups, are routinely quoted as experts and hired to give guidance to school teachers and healthcare workers.

So adults who should know better have been trained to "affirm" that the child is trans without looking into other reasons for their distress.
Your child is far more likely to be gay, or simply a nice unaggressive male -- qualities that may make him feel he's not one of the gang.

Transing looks cool on social media, where myths and trends spread like wildfire. Teenagers have always gone through fads, but this is one that causes real harm. Please don't let your child be put on hormones, on a pathway that will steer him towards irreversible damage.